Knife Making Startup Costs....Need Input/Help

Ok guys here's some more info...

I have a very extensive collection of all sorts of basic hand tools from my 15+ years of my woodworking as well as stuff me late father passed on to me and a very large and sturdy workbench made out of dimensional lumber. I also have dozens of clamps, hand files, all the basic hand power tools, tablesaw, planer, nailgun's, welding machine, metal cutoff saw etc.... After an email this morning with my contact, everything is a go with a first run batch of 50 fixed blade knives to be made. With that in mind, i have not ever completed a knife, i have done my fair share of metal working but not as extensive as my woodworking experience building houses, cabinetry and custom indoor furniture. I have researched it extensively, watching dozens of videos daily now for months on end, covering aspects of grinding bevels, making completed knives, heat treating, post grinding, handle making tips, final finishing, electro etching, sheath making and on and on. I pretty much have obsessed over it to the point of where the wifey gets mad at me daily and i'm constantly searching for new things to study on the entire process.

Now with all that in mind here's what my actual process is going to consist of for making the batch of 50+ knives.....
After receiving the metal stock (either S30v or S35VN in 5/32"x1-1/2"x36" pieces(18 pieces for 54 total blanks)) i am going to bring that to a local company i have been talking to and he is going to cut the 36" pieces into 3 pieces, stack them up and then cut out my blanks as well as the pin holes with a Wire EDM machine(i am also going to buy a generous quantity of 440c stock to cut he is going to cut my blanks out of as well). After receiving all the blanks (S30v or S35VN & 440c), i am going to affix the 440c blades to 1 of the 2 jigs that i have designed. Now about the 440c stock; originally i said 4-8 for honing grinding skills, but that's not set in stone, i might buy 4-8 or i might buy 15-20, after everyone's comments it might be in the 15-20 range. Which is fine with me, hopefully the grinder i have selected will be sufficient to produce good consistent grinds as far as the machine is concerned. The jig i have designed is designed specifically for this knife design alone, it's not a generic jig that can be used for any knife, it will be set at the 2-3deg angle req'd to produce the full flat grind, it will also have carbide stops that will be at a point of where i start my grind and go to the tip and that's it (the blade will have a flat grind btw)

After grinding all the blades to perfection ( i will not let them leave my shop unless they're perfect) i am going to bring all the blanks (S30V or S35VN) to Texas Knife Supply where they are going to heat treat, temper & cryo treat all the blades to the proper hardness. After receiving all the blades back from heat treating, i am going to do my post heat treating finishing on the blades. Then i will do the electro etching of my logo as well as the company's logo into the blade steel and handle material (my handle material is top secret and the key to the deal with this company, it's going to be made out of their product). Once all that is competed i will attach stabilized scales to the steel ( i am now looking at outsourcing the scales and it seems to actually be cheaper to outsource that as well and one less thing to deal with), use my router to profile the edges ( i already did this method on the first one i created and it worked flawlessly) and seal it as required. Then make the kydex sheath out of the multiple color choice the company wants (i'm giving them the option of several different kydex/paracord color options)

Then i will do my final knife sharpening of all the finished knives and deliver them. DONE

Bring on the comments.......
 
NJStricker said:
Don't forget to budget for consumables like belts, steel, sandpaper, epoxy, epoxy containers, shipping containers, heat treat costs, postage. You could be looking at another $1000 right there depending on the volume you are trying to produce.


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I have all that figured into my other spreadsheet for the actual consumables of the knives. I have $400 figured in just belts for the basic startup and then another $500 in just belts for my knives as well ($900 total)
 
Have you considered getting a sheet or plate of steel rather than bars? Given your quantity it could be a more efficient use of steel. And you ARE getting it precision ground, right? Otherwise plan on a surface grinder if doing it yourself.


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NJStricker said:
Have you considered getting a sheet or plate of steel rather than bars? Given your quantity it could be a more efficient use of steel. And you ARE getting it precision ground, right? Otherwise plan on a surface grinder if doing it yourself.


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Well getting it cut out with a Wire EDM, it's more cost effective to make one cut on stock that has been stacked up than lots of cuts. And yes it will all be surface ground 5/32"x1-1/2"x36" cut into 12" long lengths.
 
way to go all in...

I hope it goes well for you.

Before you dig into grinding the expensive steel, consider buying some cheap mild steel for practice grinding. It will be horribly tedious but it will save you a few bucks.
 
BossDog said:
way to go all in...

I hope it goes well for you.

Before you dig into grinding the expensive steel, consider buying some cheap mild steel for practice grinding. It will be horribly tedious but it will save you a few bucks.
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Yes i plan on perfecting the grinding on some cheap steel first. I think from reading on here you are the guy i need to talk to about belt selection when i get around to ordering belts??
 
madupree said:
Yes i plan on perfecting the grinding on some cheap steel first. I think from reading on here you are the guy i need to talk to about belt selection when i get around to ordering belts??
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I can help when you are ready. The big thing about belts that is hard to get past is the most expensive isn't always the best way to go. It depends on how you grind, what you are grinding/sanding and what speed/pressure you use when grinding. A belt that works great for one person may not work all that well for you. In some cases, the most expensive belts really don't work well at all and you want to use the cheapo AO belts. It's hard to go wrong using zirc (almost always blue or green) for general all around belts. Abrasives is an insanely competitive field and the technology keeps getting better. The belts we use today in many cases crush the belts that were out just 10 or 15 years ago.

a couple quick rules of thumb:
use AO (the cheapo's) for wood, leather, plastic, g10/micarta. They won't load up as quickly (there is less abrasive to clog and they tend to be open coated) and they are more friable (they break down with use and expose new sharp edges in the abrasive).

Use Zirc for most steels that are not hardened.

Use Ceramic for hardened blades or steel that has high vanadium/chrome content.

Use engineered abrasives (norax, 3m gators) for finishing.

Generally a Jflex belt has a short life but work well for contour grinding/sanding.

A non-woven belt (Beartex, Scotchbrite type) is a nylon mesh with abrasive embedded in the mesh. These excel at finish work, deburring or rust removal.

I have found my preference for belts has changed over time as my grinding style changes. What worked well years ago for me is not necessarily what I use today.
 
Tracy, your last post about belts so well reflects my meager experience. It's good to see somebody with your extensive experience/knowledge commenting. THANK YOU!

I used Gator belts several months ago for profiling and did not like them at all - hung them in back corner. Lately I tried again, but for finishing stages and like them MUCH more - even considering buying more gators.

The J-flex are GREAT for handle work where I'm doing contours, just don't last very long at all.

Ken H>
 
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BossDog said:
I can help when you are ready. The big thing about belts that is hard to get past is the most expensive isn't always the best way to go. It depends on how you grind, what you are grinding/sanding and what speed/pressure you use when grinding. A belt that works great for one person may not work all that well for you. In some cases, the most expensive belts really don't work well at all and you want to use the cheapo AO belts. It's hard to go wrong using zirc (almost always blue or green) for general all around belts. Abrasives is an insanely competitive field and the technology keeps getting better. The belts we use today in many cases crush the belts that were out just 10 or 15 years ago.

a couple quick rules of thumb:
use AO (the cheapo's) for wood, leather, plastic, g10/micarta. They won't load up as quickly (there is less abrasive to clog and they tend to be open coated) and they are more friable (they break down with use and expose new sharp edges in the abrasive).

Use Zirc for most steels that are not hardened.

Use Ceramic for hardened blades or steel that has high vanadium/chrome content.

Use engineered abrasives (norax, 3m gators) for finishing.

Generally a Jflex belt has a short life but work well for contour grinding/sanding.

A non-woven belt (Beartex, Scotchbrite type) is a nylon mesh with abrasive embedded in the mesh. These excel at finish work, deburring or rust removal.

I have found my preference for belts has changed over time as my grinding style changes. What worked well years ago for me is not necessarily what I use today.
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Yea i will definitely be calling you when it comes time to order my belts for sure!!!
 
I grind all of my blades after Heat Treat, It saves a step of the finishing after HT, I get nice crisp grinds and also I don't have to worry about blades warping. You will have to dunk the blade after each pass and I recommend that you get a few of couple kinds of Ceramic belts. I use to buy only Norton Blaze, then I found VSM Ceramics which are less than 1/2 the price and they work better for me since I grind post HT I only use about 1/2 the grit on my ceramic belts on bevel grinding then they are moved over to the profile and I don't care pile of belts for other uses.
 
Mark Behnke said:
I've read through this thread but may have missed.

Granite surface plate and height gage.
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I now have a granite surface plate added to the mix ($50 added to startup) and i like the idea of using a drill bit to mark the centerline of the blade instead. Also removed the buffer and the wood stabilizing equipment
 
rhinoknives said:
I grind all of my blades after Heat Treat, It saves a step of the finishing after HT, I get nice crisp grinds and also I don't have to worry about blades warping. You will have to dunk the blade after each pass and I recommend that you get a few of couple kinds of Ceramic belts. I use to buy only Norton Blaze, then I found VSM Ceramics which are less than 1/2 the price and they work better for me since I grind post HT I only use about 1/2 the grit on my ceramic belts on bevel grinding then they are moved over to the profile and I don't care pile of belts for other uses.
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From what i have gathered, as long as the temperature of the blade steel doesn't get over the....... tempering temp (that right?) which would be 400deg)) everything should be good with doing a lot of grinding after heat treat. What type of steel are you using? How many blades will a VSM belt last on average?
 
My modified list.....

Belt Grinder (chassis)
$840.00
(www.beaumontmetalworks.com Model-KMG-PL)

Belt Grinder Motor & VFD Combo Package
$650.00
(www.electricmotorwholesale.com)(Carl ext.14)
(2hp 1740rpm 3phase TEFC Model-122128)
(115/230VA VFD Model-KBAC-27D 9520

Belt Grinder Addt'l Components
$325.00
(www.beaumontmetalworks.com)
(Small Wheel Attachemnt Model-SWF)
(Aluminum Spare Tooling Arm Model-STA-ALUM)
(1/2"-1" Small Wheels Model-SWR-500, 750, 100)

Grinding Belts
$400.00
(www.trugrit.com *assortment*)

Drill Press (craftsman)
$200.00
(www.craftsman.com Model-ZJQ4116D)

Granite Surface Plate - 12" x 18" x 3"
$55.00
Rex Supply www.rex-supply.com (Houston, TX) Model-NS50C12180

Etching Machine
$180.00
(www.usaknifemaker.com Model-*Personalizer*)

Sheath Press & Rivet Press
$150.00
(www.knifekits.com)
(Rivet Press Model-KYRD-PRS)
(Sheath Press-Handmade with 1" Standard Foam)


TOTAL STARTUP COST $2,800.00
 
I'm in cypress, and would love to see your set up when you get it going. Let me know if need help with anything, I'm a noob myself but I'll offer help where I can.
 
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