I'm teaching a Seminar on "Cut N Shoots" need ideas

Bruce Bump

Forum Owner-Moderator
I was contacted by Steve Dunn about teaching a 1 hour seminar at the International Custom Cutlery Exposition "ICCE" in Kansas City Missouri this September. Ya,all come!

OK heres the trouble, I'm not sure what to talk about. I need you guys to think for a minute and give me some subject matter. Im listening.
 

slatroni

Well-Known Member
If I could make it, I would hope you would do a piece on Barrel Forging and spring tempering. I hope that helps.
 

rhinoknives

Well-Known Member
Bruce,
Congrats!
First I would research the history of cut & shoots and talk about how your single/double shot black powder pistol became a hammer in the heat of battle and adding in a spike/blade for the Coup d'etat of your adversary for a few minutes. Advise them to check local laws before building to CYA

Then an out line of your chosen design, Caliber choice and configuration, are you building a knife with a gun or a gun with a knife? Along with side folding, under folder, fixed or removable?

Materials, Your experience with using prefab parts for people without a full machine shop.

Mechanism, choices in hammer & trigger configuration, flint, percussion.??

Building one of your cool display boxes. It's a lot to cover in only an hour. start writing out a progression of the hour and what you are going to use for examples," Bring a half build or disassembled Cut & Shoot along with a finished one." and you can make yourself some note cards to refer too.

I'm sure you will do fine.
 

Lyon

Well-Known Member
Only an hour?! That is what makes it hard!

Well there would be the legal side of things for the ATF. You wouldn't want to use too much time on it but just kind of spew some info real fast and move on. After that things will get hard. I suppose in 2 hours you could do an overview but in an hour I guess you kind of have to decide what to leave out. If it were me I would be less interested in fit and finish than in the design aspects. Things like how to keep it from blowing up in your hand! Things like how to make sure the barrel is strong enough as well as mounting it properly to the frame. I would think that the pistol smithing skills like how to design the trigger and hammer operation would be good too. Throw in some tips and tricks and you have an easy hour I would think. Opening the floor to questions could possibly fill a lot of time too.
 

Bruce Bump

Forum Owner-Moderator
Great so far Gentlemen, more more ideas.

How about some handout printed materials? Like calibers and powder measurement information? I have a generic plan for a pistol/lockback I could make copies of although I have no idea how many copies to make.
Ive done this one other time and time went away fast when I opened for discussion. I want to be better prepared this time.
 

Lyon

Well-Known Member
The handouts are a great idea! It also creates a platform for specific details and will help focus the time. You could put the generic plan on a message board or something for people to look at in case you ran out of copies :D
 

Bruce Bump

Forum Owner-Moderator
What information should be on a handout? Legal matters, places to buy materials, bullets, primers etc like Brownells or Track of the Wolf? Web addresses I use?
 
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Lyon

Well-Known Member
What information should be on a handout? Legal matters, places to buy materials, bullets, primers etc like Brownells or Track of the Wolf? Web addresses I use?

Also a detailed sketch. You can use it like an outline for the presentation. You can give info and details on each area you wish to cover along with a tip or two on fit/finish or common problems you have had and what you do now to avoid them. To expand on the fit/finish thought, I am constantly impressed by the level of finish you achieve and you do it with what appears to me a minimal amount of equipment. Not to say that you don't have some nice gear but I would have to say that there is more skill involved then simply relying on the equipment. That alone would be worth sitting through the presentation!
 
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Bruce Bump

Forum Owner-Moderator
Thanks guys, This is all good stuff. If the room is high tech enough to have wifi and a projector I can possibly go on-line or plug in a flash drive for some of the procedures.

Yes Matt, my equipment is mostly simpler and very little in the way of high priced machinery. I'd love to have a CNC mill but have no idea how to use it. Heck the early smiths didn't even have electricity and they produced some awesome guns and knives. I would also like to trying to get people thinking "out of the box" instead of copying another piece. I've always believed that if there is not another one like it in the world that nobody can criticize it. The early gun makers didnt have an example to copy but instead made whatever they thought would do the job. Thats why the early dual threat weapons were so vastly different. Of coarse the Industrial Revolution screwed up most of that early way of thinking and everything started to fit into common moulds.
Television helped curb young imaginations as well.
i hope i don't start on a rant there.
 
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Justin Presson

Well-Known Member
Great so far Gentlemen, more more ideas.

How about some handout printed materials? Like calibers and powder measurement information? I have a generic plan for a pistol/lockback I could make copies of although I have no idea how many copies to make.
Ive done this one other time and time went away fast when I opened for discussion. I want to be better prepared this time.
I will be there, looking forward to it!! I think a handout would be great. An exploded view of one or like you said a diagram to see the mechanics would be cool. 1 hour hardly seems like enough time to cover much. Some points to touch on off the top of my head (granted I'm not exactly at the skill level to start one yet) but if I was I would want to know.

- federal regs for making firearms
- safety tips
- once made and if sold what kind of warranty or expectations of the customer, instructions you give them
- parts source, do you make everything from scratch or can you source firing pins , chamber, cylinder, trigger, exct..
- single shot, multi shot, black powder, center fire, rim fire what is typically used what is easiest.
- is the barrel smooth or twist or does it even matter
- what does a customer expect, a conversation piece or something with accuracy?


Those are just a few things that came to mind. I'm really looking forward to the show.

What came to mind for me if I was going to build one, was not a cut n shoot but a gut n shoot more geared towards the outdoorsman. Even though I know it would be completely not as functional as 2 seperate pieces but something I could shoot a small game at short distance and then clean it with my do all gut n shoot...lol
 

Bruce Bump

Forum Owner-Moderator
I will be there, looking forward to it!! I think a handout would be great. An exploded view of one or like you said a diagram to see the mechanics would be cool. 1 hour hardly seems like enough time to cover much. Some points to touch on off the top of my head (granted I'm not exactly at the skill level to start one yet) but if I was I would want to know.

- federal regs for making firearms
- safety tips
- once made and if sold what kind of warranty or expectations of the customer, instructions you give them
- parts source, do you make everything from scratch or can you source firing pins , chamber, cylinder, trigger, exct..
- single shot, multi shot, black powder, center fire, rim fire what is typically used what is easiest.
- is the barrel smooth or twist or does it even matter
- what does a customer expect, a conversation piece or something with accuracy?


Those are just a few things that came to mind. I'm really looking forward to the show.

What came to mind for me if I was going to build one, was not a cut n shoot but a gut n shoot more geared towards the outdoorsman. Even though I know it would be completely not as functional as 2 seperate pieces but something I could shoot a small game at short distance and then clean it with my do all gut n shoot...lol
I like your idea of a "Gut N Shoot" heehee Gut em first and then shoot em.

Some good ideas, thanks Justin
 

Cubane

Well-Known Member
It would be great if you could video it and post it on youtube along with an electronic version of the handout :D
 

Justin Presson

Well-Known Member
I like your idea of a "Gut N Shoot" heehee Gut em first and then shoot em.

Some good ideas, thanks Justin
Haha ya a "shoot n gut" didn't have the same ring to it.

Also if you need a not very attractive 33 year old guy as an assistant to hand out anything or help let me know.

I'm so glad this is in KC, I'm probably going to say that at least a dozen more times between now and September.
 

Bruce Bump

Forum Owner-Moderator
Haha ya a "shoot n gut" didn't have the same ring to it.

Also if you need a not very attractive 33 year old guy as an assistant to hand out anything or help let me know.

I'm so glad this is in KC, I'm probably going to say that at least a dozen more times between now and September.
Yes, I will need an assistant more than likely, Thanks for the offer. Don't worry about looking good. :) We're just interested in guns and stuff.
This show will be easy for you to get to I see you live there in town!
 
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gudspelr

Well-Known Member
This class sounds so cool.... Lots of good ideas already mentioned. With only an hour, it seems much more of an overview type of situation for you. It's almost like telling a great maker they only have an hour to go over everything on a high end folder. For you, it's like asking that and please throw in all the gun info, too...

Some things that come to mind for me are:
-mono steel vs Damascus barrels and fittings (what steels, necessary hardness, etc)
-as has been mentioned, what calibers and how to choose for the particular gun
-tools that go with it (not having had much experience with black powder guns) and do you make those
-for a first timer, are there "kits" out there that can be had or modified to be a cut 'n shoots
-main design concerns/challenges for those starting out (how to make a knife go on a gun and not look like a horrible afterthought...?)

I agree with others, too that handouts would be fantastic. Stuff like diagrams along with various suppliers for the specialty type items would be great. I think if you added in anything for the attendees to reference from your main points would make it easy to take further notes-like in deciding/making a design, which calibers you prefer and why... That way maybe you could get away with listing some bullet points on main ideas and a guy could write more on it if he needs to and you won't have to hand out a mini-booklet ;).

Whatever you you come up with, I'm betting it will be fantastic. I'm a little jealous of those that get to go.

Jeremy
 

Bruce Bump

Forum Owner-Moderator
Jeremy, Thanks for your input. The Main points on the handout is a great idea. A place to take notes and stay on subject.
 

BossDog

KnifeDogs.com & USAknifemaker.com Owner
I'd suggest a slide show with about 2 minutes per slide talking time. Get as much WIP detail in there as you can. Emphasis the hand tools aspect of it since you don't CNC. Use the free PowerPoint clone from OpenOffice. It works well and will help you organize your pictures and talking points.

If there are questions, table them until after your hour is up or you will never even come close to getting through your planned material. In my past life, I had to give a lot presentations on various topics and the questions were almost always one off's that held little value for anyone else in the room.

Janik and I will be sitting in the back and hold que cards for you if you forget where you are in the deck and get stuck which should help unless Janik drops them and mixes them all up.
 
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McClellan Made Blades

Well-Known Member
I 2nd Boss's suggestion, as it was my input! A Powerpoint(or clone), works like a champ, you can hit the high points, spend as much time on it as you deem necessary, and move to the next one, its what EVERYONE wants to know! Basically a LIVE WIP! With the Master showing the way! Something like the Matchlock Axe Pistol build! The would have the crowd RIVETED!!! Although there would not be much time for participants questions, maybe you could hold a sidebar after the session, in an undisclosed area! Just the Dragon carving would be
an hour! The main thing is HAVE FUN!!!!
Rex
 

ddavelarsen

Well-Known Member
I was contacted by Steve Dunn about teaching a 1 hour seminar at the International Custom Cutlery Exposition "ICCE" in Kansas City Missouri this September. Ya,all come!

OK heres the trouble, I'm not sure what to talk about. I need you guys to think for a minute and give me some subject matter. Im listening.
Sorry Bruce - no ideas intrude right now but trust me when I say - I'll be there for that!
 
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