I wonder.......

EdCaffreyMS

EdCaffreyMS

"The Montana Bladesmith"
If this mask works? https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Polluti...t+Mask+by+Fightech&qid=1564588890&s=hi&sr=1-3

I'm still not in any condition to work in the shop, so I have tons of time to play around on the computer... which probably isn't a good thing. :) But, as I was browsing the never ending rabbit hole, that is Amazon, I found the above item. And just because it was so inexpensive, I thought I'd order one and give it a shot. I've not spoken to, or heard from anyone who has/uses one......so what the heck? Part of me says there's no way it can protect like my 3M respirator, but another part of says............maybe? If anybody has one used one of these, let me (and everyone else here) know how it is.;)
 
I've seen those and thought the same thing. I think it might be useful for occasional use, but I'm not so sure about continuous shop use.
So tagged to hear other people's comment.
 
I have the HF version and have tested it (my way). Everyone that has ground a knife without a respirator has blown their nose and seen the gray tell-tale powder in the napkin. I wore this on an extended grinding session then tested it by blowing my nose. I saw no gray powder in the napkin. I will add the caveat that I also have a dust collector going too but if I grind without a respirator and still use dust collection I fail the nose blowing test. In my opinion it is also more comfortable than the rubber ones.
 
it is also more comfortable than the rubber ones.
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That was one thing I was curious about...... even here in Montana, a short grinding session during summer's heat, is miserable with a full blown respirator in place.
 
Ed...Anthony Self made a grinding filter from an old c-pap machine. I couldn't find the you tube on it. I think if your lungs are compromised having the "power assist" would be a great help. perhaps the extra effort to draw air through a normal mask will be fatiguing? You could build a larger filter box so that the tiny c-pap filter wasn't being over worked. These thing are meant to run 8 hrs at a whack.

He placed his in a drawer under the grind bench...outta the way of grit and dirt. Simple and very clever. His main reason was that the c-pap mask fits a bearded face better'n any dust mask, etc....
 
Thanks Ed!! Something else I have to buy. Stay off of Amazon! You're costing both of us money. J/K :). Glad you're feeling a little better. Get well soon.
 
Smallshop said:
Ed...Anthony Self made a grinding filter from an old c-pap machine. I couldn't find the you tube on it. I think if your lungs are compromised having the "power assist" would be a great help. perhaps the extra effort to draw air through a normal mask will be fatiguing? You could build a larger filter box so that the tiny c-pap filter wasn't being over worked. These thing are meant to run 8 hrs at a whack.

He placed his in a drawer under the grind bench...outta the way of grit and dirt. Simple and very clever. His main reason was that the c-pap mask fits a bearded face better'n any dust mask, etc....
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I use this setup, might be a little hokey, but I've never felt like I was getting a speck of dust or fiber in me. The filters last a really long time for me too .
 
I wondered the same as I absolutely despise wearing my respirator on these hot summer days. They seem to be gaining popularity in the knife world but so are a lot off things that shouldn’t necessarily. :)
 
Self Made Knives said:
I use this setup, might be a little hokey, but I've never felt like I was getting a speck of dust or fiber in me. The filters last a really long time for me too .
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I've had one of those cpap machines under my bed for years, never could get used to sleeping with it on so it got put away.
I saw this post the first time you put it up Anthony and I'm going to put that thing to use once I get my new shop up and running....which is in the works, and coming real soon...:D
 
Shoot- I LOVE my cpap! But Anthony’s video just got me thinking that I need to score a used one for the shop. I’m not sure if I want it to replace my respirator with it or put the hose up my shirt for as an air conditioning unit!

I had no idea how much air a cpap moves until I got one. It’s a serious little compressor.
 
This is a subject I am pretty well informed on as I used to wear breathing apparatus day in day out for my job.
With all designs of respirator what is good for one man is useless to another, the main reason being is face fit.

For example my BA mask was a small size, not many guys had faces small enough for this, it is mainly women that use this size. Most guys are medium and large sizes.
It even gets a bit more confusing as some manufactures even have Caucasian, African face size and oriental sizes too due to the huge variations in face sizes in the world.

Our BA's were under positive pressure which is supposed to prevent the ingress of toxins / particles into the mask as the pressure across the mask was greater that of the atmosphere. This has now been debunked as it has been proven as lung pressures under extremes / arduous work can on exhalation, exceed the pressure across/ within the mask. This means that the pressure will for a fraction of a second equal that of the outside pressure …...where all the nasty stuff is. This means the mask can be 'blown' away from the skin at the weak spots, such as a chin or forehead where masks tend to slip due to sweat. In the split second the mask /external pressure may be equalise and the wearer gets a lung full of the toxin as he inhales. The mask will then reseal and be positive pressure again, these are extremes but can occur.
.
This happened to me on an aircraft craft and no one believed me but then three more guys said the same and it was found our masks were either too big (as in my case due to my employer saying one size fits all) or th masks were never face fitted in the first places,as masks should be personal fit and never shared.

Now in the workshop you really do without exemption need a good fitting mask. Mine is a 3M in an extra small type. It is easy to check if it fits by removing the filters then sealing the holes hard with the palm of you hands, breath in hard and the mask should suck to your face. If it doesn't the mask might be too big, easy to tell as the air will be coming in under the seal, normally around the side of the nose or chin on the half face type masks, full face masks , well mine used to leak around the fore head and chin. So either go down a face size or check the exhalation vale is sting correctly, normally two then flaps or rubber on the inside, you mask might just need a wash as it has dirt under on of them? Once you can suck the mask flat to your face you will have a seal.

Once the filters are on set about your work having preadjusted the straps , it there is more than one of you use the buddy buddy principle and help each other set the straps central on your head.

This method will work for all face mast, full or partial...….If your an owner and have employees they should have their own mask and you can get a company in to ensure the masks are correct and well fitting. Our breathing apparatus masks used to plug into a computer via a hose/ valve device which gave the lung function and also drops for any leaks. The final test was to hold a rag soaked in amyl acetate.......if you could smell pears.....you mask isn't fitting.

Now for us as knife makers we can learn from the above as I am sure some of you will not realise there are different sizes. Things such as facial hair
which can break a seal, sweat will make he mask lose its seal, so take it ofr dry it , towel your face, then try it again .

When you try your mask for fit you need your glasses on, as they will affect the fit. Once fitted tilt the head and shake it and see if the seal holds.

Check the filters, arethey in date or 10 years old? . Every month, wash the mask in a gentle sanitiser and regarding the filters make sure there fit for the job in hand, no point having particulate filters if your etching with Hydrolchric acid, you need filters for this task.

I have Asthma so am always super safe with my masks, trust me driving yourself to hospital and the crawling up the entrance steps grasping for air isn't fun.

I know people who grind , steels, all kinds of plastics...some like Phenolics....really not clever.....oh and at the top of the nasty list..
Carbon fibre, also called Man Made Mineral Fibre or advanced space composites.

For those who don't know, it is evil stuff, as it shears into tiny needles which will go through glove and into the skin. Once there it can be for good! as if you cannot pull it out it wont show up an x ray.

If you heat it up and it starts to pyrolyze and smoke either by heat off the belt , a oven or anything that makes it smoke and it starts to break down then as it burns it has the ability to assimilate what surrounds it...ie it absorbs it...such as the bonding agents used in its construction. Even worse it changes its structure to a razor sharp microscopic 'fish hook'. If you breath this in then the fish hooks can lodge in your lungs or in your gut if you eat afterwards.

I was a Fire fighter on crash involving a Harrier which was a huge fire ball. The nest day a specialist team turned up dressed in full NBC kit and respirators. They sprayed the whole aircraft and crash site with watered down PVA glue. Once dry this bonded all the dust. Next took the aircraft away in a sealed containers . The runway area where it crashed and the grass surrounding it where our fire hoses had washed contaminates too were dug up sealed in barrels and disposed as toxic waste.

Our fire kit, helmets , boots, gloves etc and equipment such as breathing apparatus straps even our fire hoses etc were collected up, put in sealed oil drums and buried on a toxic land fill site...

Nasty stuff for sure.


Anyway back to the respirators , 3m do some good masks, this one is great I find.

7502 | 3M 7500 Series Half-Type Respirator Mask, Size Medium | RS

uk.rs-online.com uk.rs-online.com

Also one of these
www.axminster.co.uk

Axminster APF 10 Evolution® Powered Respirator with Impact Visor

This lightweight powered respirator gives good protection in a single unit, fitted with an impact visor this positive pressure powered respirator eliminates the drawbacks encountered with standard negative pressure face masks. The motor unit blows...
www.axminster.co.uk www.axminster.co.uk

Not a bad bit of kit, keeps the face cool and a slight pressure.....What ever you choose , choose well and replace often.
Mush better have the correct PPE mask than having a set of lungs damaged by years of dust and having to breathe through a medical mask with an oxygen cylinder next to you

Stay safe and buy a decent mask that fits you.
 
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Thank you very very much.

izafireman said:
The final test was to hold a rag soaked in amyl acetate.......if you could smell pears.....you mask isn't fitting.
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On this part about being able to smell through them, I had that question myself. "If I can smell the steel or the antler or wood, whatever I'm working on -does that mean I'm also breathing it?" I know someone who works for a mining outfit cutting up the core samples once they're out of the ground. I was talking to him about the same thing. And he and others had the same question, too. They were told no, they weren't breathing it even though they could smell it through the mask. That set my mind at ease for awhile. Now that I read your post it makes me question whether or not that is true. It makes me believe he might have been given false information.
 
soundmind said:
Thank you very very much.



On this part about being able to smell through them, I had that question myself. "If I can smell the steel or the antler or wood, whatever I'm working on -does that mean I'm also breathing it?" I know someone who works for a mining outfit cutting up the core samples once they're out of the ground. I was talking to him about the same thing. And he and others had the same question, too. They were told no, they weren't breathing it even though they could smell it through the mask. That set my mind at ease for awhile. Now that I read your post it makes me question whether or not that is true. It makes me believe he might have been given false information.
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Good question.... and a yes I would guess and no.....as below.

As although the test I described was for our breathing apparatus which used a positive pressure then you shouldn't be able to smell anything as the air pressure inside the mask forces anything from outside away....but as I said in the post that can actually be negated IF the BA mask isn't fitted correctly AND there is a huge exertion from the wearers lungs, its actually a very rare occurrence but has been proven in tests.

Now if you have a normal respirator on and you can smell something then you are breathing it in. The guys who have worn NBC (now CBRN) kit will have had their respirator fitted and the same test with the amyl acetate is performed. If your mask is fitted correctly you will not smell it.
BUT what must be remembered is that those respirators used an activated charcoal filter which filters out everything which it would need to as agents such as Sarin and VX which are nerve agents can enters the body by ingestion be it through the mouth or an eye for example , contact and inhalation.

Now your normal everyday filter on your respirator on your workshop mask/respirator doesn't need that level of protection, or should I say normally it doesn't. So for example today I have been grinding steel and am protected by filtration but to be honest I cannot remember if I have smelled anything through that type of filter, I might try tomorrow.

Even so, just because I haven't smelled anything through it doesn't mean I will trust it for all processes...….for example I will be etching stainless Damascus soon with Hydrochloric acid and I am pretty sure if I used my normal filters even if I couldn't smell it that it would still be damaging my lungs.....hence when I use the acid I will upgrade to a filter rated for acids.

I would say though , if you can smell something that it will be going into your lungs, not necessarily doing them damage, ie you can smell leather when you walk into a store selling jackets and it isn't doing you any harm. But in a workshop that is full of microscopic dust particles of leather say from sanding......is pretty bad, it has been linked to cancers of the nasal cavities and lungs I believe.


You comment about the core samples reminded me of the breathing apparatus at out training school, which when is use stunk of smoke, we were always told it ok they just absorb smoke over time. But when I was talking to a well respected fire officer he was told the same thing and told them that if they have absorbed smoke to such a level they smell of it they are not fit for purpose!.
 
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EdCaffreyMS said:
If this mask works? https://www.amazon.com/Anti-Polluti...t+Mask+by+Fightech&qid=1564588890&s=hi&sr=1-3

I'm still not in any condition to work in the shop, so I have tons of time to play around on the computer... which probably isn't a good thing. :) But, as I was browsing the never ending rabbit hole, that is Amazon, I found the above item. And just because it was so inexpensive, I thought I'd order one and give it a shot. I've not spoken to, or heard from anyone who has/uses one......so what the heck? Part of me says there's no way it can protect like my 3M respirator, but another part of says............maybe? If anybody has one used one of these, let me (and everyone else here) know how it is.;)
Click to expand...

TBH Ed I wouldn't want to chance using something like that. There are loads of similar products on the market , made in China stuff, no certification marks or tests required, just sold. I recall a consumer programme in the UK testing the anti pollution masks you see couriers use in cities, they failed the tests they set.

You only have one set of lungs and it isn't worth the risk as sometimes lung damage is a slow subtle thing but by the time you realise the damage is done.
 
Volkert Forge said:
I have tried a lot of different types of masks. This is my favorite link . It doesn't make you hot and it doesn't fog your glasses up in the winter.
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I have a beard, so this is one of the few respirators that I can effectively use. For what they charge for the thing, I do wish they'd upgrade the mouth piece. I suppose it's more than adequate as is, but it could be a little more comfortable. My other complaint is that it's made from very thin plastic, so if it get's very cold (which it does in my unheated garage in NW Indiana winters), it becomes brittle. I wouldn't mind as much if the thing cost $15 or $20, but at almost $60 it certainly feels "cheap". At the present time, however, it does seem to be the best/cheapest option for someone with a beard, glasses, welding hood, etc..., and it's pretty easy to just keep it around your neck and pop it in and out as needed.

I've also got a powered air respirator (Racal Breathe Easy) that you can find on eBay for pretty cheap every now and then. It's gonna be a little more bulky, and you've got to hang the battery pack on your belt, but it doesn't fog up and the air keeps your face cool. :D I do have to cinch it pretty tight due to my beard, but it doesn't do a terrible job.
 
You only have one set of lungs and it isn't worth the risk as sometimes lung damage is a slow subtle thing but by the time you realise the damage is done.
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You're preaching to the choir with that one! :) Not only am I dealing with autoimmune disease, but also interstitial lung disease. Docs are convinced that at least part of my lung issues were caused by the autoimmune stuff, but I also have factors from my military career, and the knife shop.

Way back in 09 when they first discovered a "spot" on my right lung, that put me through my first lung biopsy surgery, and landed me at the Mayo Clinic, where I was diagnosed with "nodular lymphoid hyperplasia", which I later learned is that there is something growing in my lungs, that's not supposed to be there, but they have absolutely no idea exactly what it is. However, that first biopsy revealed traced of iron, calciums (which they were able to trace to ivory/fossil ivory), and some synthetics (which they related to manufacturing processes used in creating micarta and/or G10). There was also evidence of things that are only present in the Middle East, where I spent significant time during my career.

In the decade since, I have gone through repeated treatment patterns as if being treated for cancer, with a drug called retuxan (infusions), and more recently after being sent to the University of Washington Medical center in Seattle, WA., it appears that my situations is now more influenced by the autoimmune disease than anything....increasing my overall problems to include my entire body, versus only the lungs.

Anyway, fast forward to right now, and after having undergone my 4th lung biopsy surgery in May, with my right lung now having fibrosis as well as the nodules, and being on Oxygen.... (hopefully temporary) at least until the lung they did surgery on (left) heals, and the medications they put me on hopefully begin to work on the right lung.... so, as of right now, it's not certain if I will ever be able to fully work in the shops again..... I'm just trying to heal, and come to grips with the possibility that I may never be "full time" in the shops again.

Having said all of that, respiratory protection us certainly at the top of my list as far as PPE goes. ;)
 
Reeder Grinder sells these or something similar, I thought about getting one so it would fit under my full face shield. but like you I am skeptical?
 
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