I am still waiting for my Jen-Ken VAB 16

A

Absinthe

Well-Known Member
I am still waiting on this, but starting to plan ahead. The one thing I hadn't considered was the quench. So the questions come to mind:

Keep in mind, my main focus is on folders, with potential future thoughts on kitchen & dining cutlery. Initially I will be working mainly with 80crv2, 108X, but may want to play with D2 or other tool steel, and perhaps some stainless AEB or similar.

1. What is the best option for a quench tank? I've seen a few videos where people used the ammo cans, which Iliked because they can be closed when not in use. But other than that, I have no great ideas.
2. Since I am not running a forge, I have no tongs. Do I need proper black smith tongs, or is there a better choice for transferring to quench? Big pliers perhaps?
3. Can I standardize on one quencher like Parks 50 or AAA? Or do I really need both? Or something else besides?
 
One of the issues is that you have to figure out how to heat the oil unless you are using Parks 50 in Florida like me. I used a Home Depot turkey fryer for years, but never used the burner. I just heated bars in the forge and used them when I was using AAA type oil or when it wasw below 60F.. The downside of that rig was that it wouldn't hold a full 5 gallons of because it leaked around the handle rivets, so you couldn't take advantage of the full capacity fo the pot. Recently, I switched to a 120mm mortar round can for my Parks 50. I found them while searching for round 155mm howitzer round cans. Advantage of the120mm cans are that they are tall enough for most things and roomy so you could do things like integral tactical tomahawks or viking axe heads that you cant do in a small diameter vertical tank.
 
Like jmforge I use a big ammo can. I was using a camp stove to heat and probably will again once I can find a missing part :rolleyes:
The method of heating oil with a piece of steel prior to quenching your knife is used quite a bit. It does work, but personally I haven't found it that effective. It's hard to evenly heat five gallons of oil that way.

I use large pliers to retrieve and quench. But a pair of tongs would be much more effective. I've dropped several knives using the pliers.
I'm looking to buy these tongs from Ken's Custom Iron. That way you can modify them to suit your particular needs.

I currently only use AAA oil. But many will strongly suggest to use Parks 50 instead or preferably both.
 
.50 cal ammo can. I put a cooking oil thermometer in it like you use for deep frying, and just lay a burning MAPP torch next to it pointed at it to warm it up. I heat it up to about 100F. Parks 50, and I use that for 52100, which is pretty much the only carbon steel I use. I quench it for 5 seconds, then clamp it in my aluminum quench plates till it’s cool. That’s for .094 stock. I do have a bunch of forge tongs, and that’s what I use so I don’t burn my hands. You could use a regular pliers, but I would probably weld some longer handles onto them so you can keep a foot away or so. I haven’t done a folder in many years, but I bet if you thread a piece of wire through the pivot hole so you can quench the whole works pretty evenly you will have good results.
 
jmforge said:
One of the issues is that you have to figure out how to heat the oil unless you are using Parks 50 in Florida like me. I used a Home Depot turkey fryer for years, but never used the burner. I just heated bars in the forge and used them when I was using AAA type oil or when it wasw below 60F.. The downside of that rig was that it wouldn't hold a full 5 gallons of because it leaked around the handle rivets, so you couldn't take advantage of the full capacity fo the pot. Recently, I switched to a 120mm mortar round can for my Parks 50. I found them while searching for round 155mm howitzer round cans. Advantage of the120mm cans are that they are tall enough for most things and roomy so you could do things like integral tactical tomahawks or viking axe heads that you cant do in a small diameter vertical tank.
Click to expand...
I am focussed on smaller knives. Pretty much soda can might be big enough :) I was thinking the small rectangular ammo cans holds a gallon if lucky.
 
Sean Jones said:
Like jmforge I use a big ammo can. I was using a camp stove to heat and probably will again once I can find a missing part :rolleyes:
The method of heating oil with a piece of steel prior to quenching your knife is used quite a bit. It does work, but personally I haven't found it that effective. It's hard to evenly heat five gallons of oil that way.

I use large pliers to retrieve and quench. But a pair of tongs would be much more effective. I've dropped several knives using the pliers.
I'm looking to buy these tongs from Ken's Custom Iron. That way you can modify them to suit your particular needs.

I currently only use AAA oil. But many will strongly suggest to use Parks 50 instead or preferably both.
Click to expand...
Those tongs look cool, but I have no forge capabilities. Simple as they are, they still require some hammering and upsetting and jaw modification.
 
Absinthe said:
I am still waiting on this, but starting to plan ahead. The one thing I hadn't considered was the quench. So the questions come to mind:

Keep in mind, my main focus is on folders, with potential future thoughts on kitchen & dining cutlery. Initially I will be working mainly with 80crv2, 108X, but may want to play with D2 or other tool steel, and perhaps some stainless AEB or similar.

1. What is the best option for a quench tank? I've seen a few videos where people used the ammo cans, which Iliked because they can be closed when not in use. But other than that, I have no great ideas.
2. Since I am not running a forge, I have no tongs. Do I need proper black smith tongs, or is there a better choice for transferring to quench? Big pliers perhaps?
3. Can I standardize on one quencher like Parks 50 or AAA? Or do I really need both? Or something else besides?
Click to expand...

I think a good set of tongs is essential for moving you blades in and out of the heat treat oven. Whether quenching in oil or plate quenching I always use mine along with a nice pair of leather blacksmith gloves. 1950 degrees is HOT!
 
Sean Jones said:
Like jmforge I use a big ammo can. I was using a camp stove to heat and probably will again once I can find a missing part :rolleyes:
The method of heating oil with a piece of steel prior to quenching your knife is used quite a bit. It does work, but personally I haven't found it that effective. It's hard to evenly heat five gallons of oil that way.

I use large pliers to retrieve and quench. But a pair of tongs would be much more effective. I've dropped several knives using the pliers.
I'm looking to buy these tongs from Ken's Custom Iron. That way you can modify them to suit your particular needs.

I currently only use AAA oil. But many will strongly suggest to use Parks 50 instead or preferably both.
Click to expand...
Both. I know some people use parks 50 for everything, but my experience said that at some point you’re gonna need something like AAA for thin cross sections of deeper hardening steel. You only need one blade coming apart on you to make it worth it. Unfortunately, the AAA type stuff does require heating.
 
Absinthe said:
1. What is the best option for a quench tank? I've seen a few videos where people used the ammo cans, which Iliked because they can be closed when not in use. But other than that, I have no great ideas.
Click to expand...
My 5 gallons of Parks50 came in a metal 5 gallon can, perfect for quenching my kitchen knives.
Absinthe said:
2. Since I am not running a forge, I have no tongs. Do I need proper black smith tongs, or is there a better choice for transferring to quench? Big pliers perhaps?
Click to expand...
No you don't need specific tongs, just something other than your fingers.
Absinthe said:
3. Can I standardize on one quencher like Parks 50 or AAA?
Click to expand...
Not really. Quench mediums (oils) are rated by the speed of cooling. Different steels require different cooling rates. I'll suggest looking into getting a book (Knife Engineering by Dr Larrin Thomas is a good one). No offense to the participants here, but on forums you can get a lot of opinions and 'this is what works for me' responses, which is not always the correct answer.
Absinthe said:
do I really need both?
Click to expand...
Maybe...
Absinthe said:
Or something else besides?
Click to expand...
Again, maybe. Depends on the steel you are using for each specific knife.

IIRC Parks 50 is a fast (7-9 second) oil and AAA is slightly slower as a medium-fast oil (9-11 seconds)

In my opinion, if you are planning on selling your knives, use the proper quenchant for the steel used.
 
Absinthe said:
I am focussed on smaller knives. Pretty much soda can might be big enough :) I was thinking the small rectangular ammo cans holds a gallon if lucky.
Click to expand...
This will depend on how many knives you are planning on doing at one time. If you are going to do batches, you will need to account for the fact that the quench medium will get warmer with each blade you quench. IIRC, Parks 50 works best at room temp up to ~150F. So when doing multiple blades, many makers will have some way to cool their quench medium after every few blades.

If you are doing small blades like folders, you could probably (this is just a guess) quench 5-10 in a 5 gallon bucket of quenchant without needing to cool it down.
 
billyO said:
My 5 gallons of Parks50 came in a metal 5 gallon can, perfect for quenching my kitchen knives.

No you don't need specific tongs, just something other than your fingers.

Not really. Quench mediums (oils) are rated by the speed of cooling. Different steels require different cooling rates. I'll suggest looking into getting a book (Knife Engineering by Dr Larrin Thomas is a good one). No offense to the participants here, but on forums you can get a lot of opinions and 'this is what works for me' responses, which is not always the correct answer.

Maybe...

Again, maybe. Depends on the steel you are using for each specific knife.

IIRC Parks 50 is a fast (7-9 second) oil and AAA is slightly slower as a medium-fast oil (9-11 seconds)

In my opinion, if you are planning on selling your knives, use the proper quenchant for the steel used.
Click to expand...
I do believe that those medium fast oils are 11-13 oil and the speed is detrmned by the temperature. 120f or 180F gives you 13 second and 150F give you 11 second. That was what Houghton said IIRC. Their oil is also repackaged and sold by Brownells as Tough Quench, at least last time that I looked. There has been a slight change in Parks 50 over the last ten years. Now the low end temp is about 20 degrees lower than when I first bought the stuff circa 2006-2007.
 
Bruce McLeish said:
I'm only about 750 miles north of you ! sheese, you retired guys on govmint dough can afford it !
Click to expand...

Ha Ha! If you think the USAF retirement is enough to live on in California...well not even close. The govmint would like us to all live on cheese and crackers with what they pay...
 
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