How do you grind?

Mark Andrews said:
Good Post Tom .. I think no matter how you do it is the end result . What you make today and what you make next year are usually a lot different . At least for me. I started free hand and tossed many blades in the trash. Frustration set in. I found that a lot of new people rush to get it done.. I understand why we do that. We want to see the end result . My advice for what it is worth is to slow down and take your time. Try and remember the pressure plays a role . should be equal on both sides . I use a Bump file guide . It is a excellent product. I also use Fred's Bubble jig . That little tool is so simple but effective . Now

I just have to set my grind and just walk it up free hand. I only do it that way because It is faster. If you stray from your grind you can fall back to the bubble to even it up. Its all about the end result . Have fun with it and try to do better every blade. You will see improvement as time goes by.
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Thanks Mark, I really like your Scandi grinds. Tough knife.
 
Mark Behnke said:
One of my big stumbling blocks is adjusting what I think my hands are doing to reality.
In other words I think I'm grinding on a certain part of the blade when I'm not, Keep looking and nothing is happening in the area of focus.
A black sharpy helps here, and the big thing is to get the correction transmitted to your body. The more you grind without correction the more ingrained the miscommunication becomes.
Grind
Observe
Adjust
Alot of times I think each hand is applying equal pressure which probably is true but the distance from the grind point to each hand is not equal distance so leverage plays a part. Also twist, position on the wheel, speed , so many things.
I want to make a kitchen knife but never learned to flat grind, still trying to perfect my hollow grinds, did I mention that grinding is the hardest most frustrating part of knifemaking for me.
I'm gonna make slippys, nice small blades and a lot of bench time.
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Along with the pressure the other thing I did was to put the ceramic belts aside for profiling and such after about 50% of the grit is gone.

Yes, I know there's plenty of grit left but when I bevel grind after HT the sweet part is with the first half of the grit. After that they start to develop to much heat and require too much pressure to cut properly for me.

So, Like Bossdog says on his site. Use belts like they are free!
 
I grind without jigs but when I first started I had the same problem as most everybody else. I invented a jig that worked for hollow grinding pretty well. I loaned it to a fellow maker and never saw it again. Nice guy! Anyway I was forced to do without it and have never been happier. i do however use a file guide for accuracy on plunges and shoulders. I can do without one but just one slip and it takes allot of time to correct. On some knifes there is no room for errors.
Belts? when they are dull they will kill your heat treatment. Don't even keep em, toss them in the trash and don't look back.
 
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Bruce Bump said:
Belts? when they are dull they will kill your heat treatment. Don't even keep em, toss them in the trash and don't look back.
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I'm paranoid about this, but being new I still can't put a fine edge (ha!) on when a belt is "dull" versus just duller than brand new. Lately I've been pulling the belt off when I feel like the knife is getting too warm for the amount of steel coming off. But a belt that has seen just a few passes feels wildly less sharp than one hanging on the wall. But I know that the belt is still cutting great. So narrowing the gap between "not fresh" and "dull" is still a gray area to me.

And if I'm grinding by hand, and blade is not getting hot- isn't that okay post HT? I realize the edge and the thinner parts are getting hotter than the piece I'm holding but so long as you are checking those areas when you go dunk shouldn't that be sufficient?
 
I'm only on my second knife but I hated the grind on my first. This time around I'm using a lot more sandpaper and handwork. It's slow, it's hard but I can see a much better result and I reckon in about 3 or 400 more sheets I'll have a knife to be proud of. I don't have a belt grinder yet so I started the grind with a stone, went to a file and now I'm tidying up with the wet and dry.
 
Cally said:
I'm only on my second knife but I hated the grind on my first. This time around I'm using a lot more sandpaper and handwork. It's slow, it's hard but I can see a much better result and I reckon in about 3 or 400 more sheets I'll have a knife to be proud of. I don't have a belt grinder yet so I started the grind with a stone, went to a file and now I'm tidying up with the wet and dry.
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You ground your bevels with a stone?? How does that work? I'm genuinely curious.
 
KenH said:
Thank you Tom for your kind words on jigs. I am getting better freehand grinding, but it's MUCH better for me to use a jig for establishing the main bevel, then tend to move toward freehand for final grind..... sometimes that is. Other times it's jig all the way. "IF" I were grinding 20 knives per week I'm sure I'd get to freehand. Since I'm in this as a hobby, I don't grind enough blades in a month to learn that muscle memory.

The Bubble Jig works pretty good for learning also - and the Bubble Jig clamp makes a really good file guide.


Ken H>
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Grinding the same identical blade, I can grind it twice as fast with the Bubble Jig as I can free hand. Nothing to correct, no odd planes on the bevel. If your angle of approach is exactly the same ever time, stock removal is faster. On bigger blades like these big dirks the result is magnified. The blade length here is 21". Both of these blades were finished without the Bubble Jig or grinding clamp, after heat treatment was completed. Working with matching bevels is a pleasure I won't do without anymore.
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John Wilson said:
I'm paranoid about this, but being new I still can't put a fine edge (ha!) on when a belt is "dull" versus just duller than brand new. Lately I've been pulling the belt off when I feel like the knife is getting too warm for the amount of steel coming off. But a belt that has seen just a few passes feels wildly less sharp than one hanging on the wall. But I know that the belt is still cutting great. So narrowing the gap between "not fresh" and "dull" is still a gray area to me.

And if I'm grinding by hand, and blade is not getting hot- isn't that okay post HT? I realize the edge and the thinner parts are getting hotter than the piece I'm holding but so long as you are checking those areas when you go dunk shouldn't that be sufficient?
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This is my biggest problem and have noticed that it takes more pressure to the blade for the belt to cut, and that my control with light pressure is not as good as with heavy pressure or visa virsa. To be consistent it helps to elminate variables or at least minimize them. I keep my belts way to long and suffer for it. Time to order. Still haven't worked that out.
 
John Wilson said:
I'm paranoid about this, but being new I still can't put a fine edge (ha!) on when a belt is "dull" versus just duller than brand new. Lately I've been pulling the belt off when I feel like the knife is getting too warm for the amount of steel coming off. But a belt that has seen just a few passes feels wildly less sharp than one hanging on the wall. But I know that the belt is still cutting great. So narrowing the gap between "not fresh" and "dull" is still a gray area to me.

And if I'm grinding by hand, and blade is not getting hot- isn't that okay post HT? I realize the edge and the thinner parts are getting hotter than the piece I'm holding but so long as you are checking those areas when you go dunk shouldn't that be sufficient?
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John,
I start my grinding post HT with a fresh ceramic 36 grit and dunk in the water bucket after each pass, I designed Rhino Finger Skins for this exact process. When I see any steam at all coming off the blade its time for a dunk.

Water boils/steams at 212 degrees and our last tempers on most of the steels we use, Air hardening stainless in particular is at 350-400 degrees so there is a safety margin there and the skins are primarily for thermal protection. They allow us to feel what we are grinding and the amount of pressure used while giving me a few more seconds to hold the steel properly and dismount from the grinding operation correctly.

I don't have those raw sore spots in the middle of my thumbs anymore and they have saved me from many other cuts and burns.

I have a batch of my new model of Rhino Finger Skins I increased the sizes for those really sausage fingered makers and increased the length as well for long fingered makers like myself!

They now come in a Small/Medium and Medium Large size and they are size as well as Digit labeled by a T for thumb and a F for finger.

I just got these from my MFG today and I was bagging them up. They will be ready to ship on the morrow!DSCN2388.jpg
 
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I want to Thank everyone that gave me great pointers on grinding a blade. I will keep working at it. I have started grinding another blade this week.
 
...that's not right for your first knife, it doesn't look at all like it use to be a lawnmower blade....and you just missed the picture contest too.
 
That is overly acceptable for a first attempt. In fact, it looks pretty darn good.

Bruce Bump wrote, " I do however use a file guide for accuracy on plunges and shoulders." Your second picture shows a plunge line that could use a file guide for some assistance.

Bossdog should have one laying around the shop. Give it a try and you will never go back to free hand grinding without one. It sure did help me. It not only keeps the plunge straight, but, I feel it gives me an edge with pressure and holding control. I do not have nightmares about the knife flying out of my hands in the middle of the grind any more.

FYI - I grind freehand with the assistance of a Bruce Bump file guide. Edge up. Right, wrong or indifferent, that is how I do it now.

When I first started, I used a jig. About 10 knives (4-6 months from beginning) into grinding knives, I got rid of the jig. I am still on the upward bend of the learning curve. I get better, in my mind, each time I grind. The learning curve is quite steep.

Good luck to you. Keep grinding and making dust.

DeMo
 
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