Historically Speaking, When ...,

Can’t say anything for certain, but plunge lines were at least necessitated by the advent of the ricasso. The ricasso was ushered in by two factors- fighting styles that brought the fingers more often in front of the guard to control the blade and steel production technologies that allowed for the luxury of enough material to be devoted to the ricasso. But I have also seen plunge lines on late 15th century pieces that had very little to no ricasso, so the available material and changing construction designs may have played a larger factor. No plunges means no reinforcement of cross section from the edge bevels to the tang, plunges allow for a much stronger transition to tang and a more defined area of sharpened edge. One could also argue if there are differences between sweeping bevel terminations and tight plunges or if one is just a wider, looser variation of the other.
 
In the book A sure Defense,The Bowie knife in America you can find examples of knives with and without from the early 1830s so I'm sure they had them prior to this if one hade the steel to do it.
 
To make a wild guess I would think that they might have started when swords started getting complex hilts. Why sharpen the section of the sword blade that will be covered by ring guards? Maybe from there they went to left handed daggers that had complex hilts.

Doug
 
Last night I pulled out Mr. Cashen's DVD, THE QUILLON DAGGER. There are several drawings and pics of old world swords and daggers shown. Then, looking through images online of early american frontier blades, it is almost like somewhere along the way we lost the knowledge and skills to create beautiful, functional pieces of art.
Don't know what point I'm trying to make (if any), but I do find the whole history of blades, old and newer, interesting.
 
Thank goodness there is a diverse group of knife makers and enthusiast. From refined to primitive and everything in between there is something for everyone.
 
DanF said:
Last night I pulled out Mr. Cashen's DVD, THE QUILLON DAGGER. There are several drawings and pics of old world swords and daggers shown. Then, looking through images online of early american frontier blades, it is almost like somewhere along the way we lost the knowledge and skills to create beautiful, functional pieces of art.
Don't know what point I'm trying to make (if any), but I do find the whole history of blades, old and newer, interesting.
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Two huge factors were firearms taking the dominant role on the battlefield and the industrial revolution. At the same time that you see bladed weapons going very utilitarian and more like cheap trinkets, you see firearms getting all that attention in the way of embellishment and improvement. For 3,000 years the Bladesmith was the wizard of weaponry and the cutting edge of metallurgy. But when those boom sticks caught on, metallurgy focused more on creating metal cylinders that could handle the pressure of a powder charge. The bladesmith's services were no longer required and he was relegated to making outdated curiosities, soon the specialty was absorbed by general blacksmiths and you see the frontier style blacksmith knives that were dominant on colonial frontiers. The final nail on the coffin was when mass production rendered custom, hand-crafted blades a silly notion for a nonessential trinket. Sheffield did a fair job but they were still lesser facsimiles destined for wall hanging rather than the grand weapons of old.

One exception that I have often taken with groups like say the ABS is the claim to preserve the art of the forged blade while focusing so heavily on the efforts of 19th century blacksmiths, who were merely trying to emulate the true bladesmiths of old. This is the basis for my fascination with the much older blades, they are from the time when the Bladesmith was a true force to be reckoned with, and much of that incredible tradition has been forgotten.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
Two huge factors were firearms taking the dominant role on the battlefield and the industrial revolution. At the same time that you see bladed weapons going very utilitarian and more like cheap trinkets, you see firearms getting all that attention in the way of embellishment and improvement. For 3,000 years the Bladesmith was the wizard of weaponry and the cutting edge of metallurgy. But when those boom sticks caught on, metallurgy focused more on creating metal cylinders that could handle the pressure of a powder charge. The bladesmith's services were no longer required and he was relegated to making outdated curiosities, soon the specialty was absorbed by general blacksmiths and you see the frontier style blacksmith knives that were dominant on colonial frontiers. The final nail on the coffin was when mass production rendered custom, hand-crafted blades a silly notion for a nonessential trinket. Sheffield did a fair job but they were still lesser facsimiles destined for wall hanging rather than the grand weapons of old.

One exception that I have often taken with groups like say the ABS is the claim to preserve the art of the forged blade while focusing so heavily on the efforts of 19th century blacksmiths, who were merely trying to emulate the true bladesmiths of old. This is the basis for my fascination with the much older blades, they are from the time when the Bladesmith was a true force to be reckoned with, and much of that incredible tradition has been forgotten.
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I like that, well stated.
 
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