Help with a 25lb'er part 2

[springer82]

I got the old dies out. I can honestly say,,, sawzall's are good!!! lol,,, I sliced the keys in half. I got the new dies in and spring. I know from my info from LG they are looking for 7/8's to 1" gap between the top and bottom dies. Well that's not working so well for me. I got 1/2". The cross head is as high on the pitman as it can go. The only other adjustment for ram height is the adjusting screw for the spring. That will work great except it pushes the plate that holds the spring away from the arm. That is what gets my attention. Is that right. Should that be about 3/16 to 1/4" away from the arm???? It was not like that before. I know the bottom die is better then .55 taller then the old one. I did not bother to check the top. I can only guess. The old dies might be 73 years old?? That's what I got going. Is it ok to have a gap better then a little between the spring support and the arm. Thanks for your help.

Bob

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

Hmmm...... are you sure the toggle arm mount to the pitman arm isn't reversed? I've worked on and rebuilt many LG hammers, and I've never seen the toggle arm yoke mounted to the pitman in the manner your pic shows. I'm pretty sure the pitman arm should be inserted into the top of the toggle arm yoke. Let me rephrase that..... I have "seen" it mounted that way, but the hammer doesn't work without knocking the spring out about every 3rd revolution.

 

[springer82]

I know the last owner or who ever had the guides for the ram on the wrong side. Just because one side has a R on it and the other seed side has a L on it that does not matter. Right. The arms are on the right sides. I just think the dies are large. I'll have to call LG on Friday. Thanks Ed.

 

[Gliden07]

Think Ed is right about the toggle arm mount. This is a pic of my friends and that piece is mounted the other way and the pinch bolt is on the left side (in all that John Deer Green).

 

[springer82]

That is one of the differences between early hammers and new. Thanks for trying!! I can use all the help I can get.

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

I don't think it's a commonality between old and new style hammers. I used an old style 50lb hammer (wrap around guide), and a new style 25lb hammer (dovetail guides)....in my shop for approx. 15 years...... Although the new style 25lb hammer came with the toggle arm yoke mounted as you show in the images you posted, the hammer would not operate in that manner, without contacting/knocking the spring out. When I rebuilt that hammer, and reassembled, I mounted the toggle arm yoke as show in the image just above (pitman arm pointing down), and it worked that way until I sold both hammers and switched to a single air hammer in the shop. I have to believe that whom ever had the hammer prior to me, had either not used it, or if they had worked on the hammer, assembled it wrong. You mentioned in your post that the dovetail guides were installed wrong....so it's not a big stretch to assume that the toggle arm yoke might have been assembled incorrectly too. Just a thought.

 

[CMS3900]

Lol, I had just posted some info in your other thread. To me, for that model LG, the cross head is in the right way. I would want to see the positioning of the toggle links. With the ram in the lowest position can you take a full front picture? The crosshead shouldn't need to be up all the way to fit the dies in, that's all your extra stroke for forging larger stock. The plate that holds the spring will move to compress the spring. When adjusted properly, the toggle links should be pretty well perpendicular to the ram, and you should have about 1" between the dies. Weariness of the spring arrangement is why most folks build a cage around the front of the LG.
Hope that helps,
Morgan

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

Weariness of the spring arrangement is why most folks build a cage around the front of the LG.

Speaking of the spring.....and an associated guard. If you don't install a SOLID guard between the spring and the operator..... it's only a matter of time before something VERY bad happens.

 

[springer82]

This is the way it sits right now. The spring adjustment screw is finger tight. The dies are sitting face to face. I would have to turn the adjusting screw all the way and I would still not have the 3/4".

 

[CMS3900]

The crosshead on the first picture is about the right ("down") position for normal operation, so in that position you should be able to get the 3/4-1 inch gap. The dies also look to be H8 dies. The second pic shows the ram hanging a little low.

Check out this photo of Don Hansons 100lb hammers in that style. Look at how the toggle links are perpendicular to the ram. The sag in the ram of your machine is probably enough to correct the gap, its just figuring out whats causing the sag if your saying turning the spring adjusting screw in doesn't help.



These machines are pretty simple, it can only be the following things: spring not adjusted properly, bad spring, worn pins/holes (not all were bushed) in the crosshead, toggle arms, toggle arm links, and ram. Or in a ultra rare case the babbit in the mainshaft is wore all the way out in the front, but you would see that mis-alingment between the frame and the crankplate.

From the Kern Book, useful for all little giant owners:
Spring: OD roughly 4.5 inches long, .5 wire size, 6.5 coils
Dies should be 3 inches tall.

 

[springer82]

I talked to Roger from LG this morning. Nice guy!! I pulled the ram off again. Checking the bushings. Then reinstall. I'll set the spring tension and go from there. I will say that it makes me a little nervous when that plate the spring sits on (right side) comes off the arm. Does anybody make space plates to help with support?

 

[CMS3900]

Not that I know of. There were thousands made that way that work well. FWIW, I have never heard of the adjusting bolt breaking. The guard on the front is what most folks do for insurance, and even with that, I have heard plenty of stories of LG springs breaking but I have yet to find someone it actually happened too, or was in a shop when it happened.

 

[springer82]

Thank you everyone for your help. I could push the head up a little more but I'll go with the .850. I still don't like the space between the spring plate and arm but oh well. It worked great on a 2x4. I hope I get a chance to try it out tonight.