Help me figure out kitchen grinds

J

Jason Wilder

Well-Known Member
I am in the process of finishing my first Gyuto (chef) and Pearing knife and did them both with a full flat grind with distil taper, but would like to try something different with my next kitchen blades

I would very much like to practice traditional Japanese grinds and need to be educated.

Here is a diagram I just drew and would like to know which to use for which knives

KnifeGrinds.jpg


Unless I am mistaken I should have used the type of grind in figure A which begins with a full flat grind to about 1/3 of the thickness on either side, then a second bevel that begins about 1/3 from the edge. Does this make sense?

When would the grind in figure B be used?

My next project will be a Nikiri but am not sure which grind to use? I'd love to hear your thoughts, and please correct me if I mislabeled these grinds

Thanks,
Jason
 
jawilder said:
I am in the process of finishing my first Gyuto (chef) and Pearing knife and did them both with a full flat grind with distil taper, but would like to try something different with my next kitchen blades

I would very much like to practice traditional Japanese grinds and need to be educated.


Here is a diagram I just drew and would like to know which to use for which knives

KnifeGrinds.jpg


Unless I am mistaken I should have used the type of grind in figure A which begins with a full flat grind to about 1/3 of the thickness on either side, then a second bevel that begins about 1/3 from the edge. Does this make sense?

When would the grind in figure B be used?

My next project will be a Nikiri but am not sure which grind to use? I'd love to hear your thoughts, and please correct me if I mislabeled these grinds

Thanks,
Jason
Click to expand...

The first image is a SABER Grind and only good for , Well Sabers.
The full flat grind is the one I use most with a bit of a Convex grind on the bottom third of the blade..

These are great for culinary knives. The image 2/ is a Left handed chisel grind, These are used in a Deba for cutting off fish heads and a Yaganagi A long slicer for Sashimi or Sushi.

You want the flat side of the grind on the inside of the body or the knife will roll over when slicing.
The image B at the very right is a right handed Chisel grind.
A the second to the end is a heavy Micro Bevel or a Morra or Laplander Grind, These make a great hunting knife and I use them with a smaller secondary bevel on some of my culinary Chef Knives.


a Nikiri usually has a full flat grind or a full Flat grind with a bottom 1/3 convex grind.
Hope this helps you some?

Laurence

www.westsidesharpening.com/
 
Last edited:
Laurence, thankd for replying. I wasn't sure if I should stick with the flat grind or challenge myself with something more adventerious. I guess I'll stick with it and work on my convex a bit more.

By the way, here is what I just finished

20120301_082341.jpg

Jason
 
Those are very good looking.
On the Chef, Try to angle the handle so it's a bit higher in the birdshead in relation to the cutting edge. If someone is in the middle of the cutting board they may hit their knukules.

Laurence

www.westsidesharpening.com/
 
what are you calling the "birdshed"? The spine is straight from most of the handle through where the point drops. It might be the angle of the picture. Here is another pic for reference

Specs are:
Chef knife is 8.25" long, 2" wide, and 3/32" at the thickest part with a full distil taper
Pearing knife is 4" long, 1" wide, and also 3/32" with distil taper
Both have O1 steel hardened to 60/61
Wood is Smokey Quilted Maple
Bolsters and corby bolts are all Nickel Silver
Both have full flat grind.

20120301_081959.jpg
 
In my experiance, a flat grind with a slight bevel has always worked well. I like to grind mine thinner than some folks (.80) at the spine is the usual for me. This helps lighten the knofe as well as help with cutting resistance. I also take mine to just slightly above a 0 deg grind to the edge. This gives a super sharp blade, but the edge can be damadged if used to hard. For a general pourpose knife I will go with a beefier edge.

Great looking work, looks like yo are well on your way!

God Bless
Mike
 
jawilder said:
what are you calling the "birdshed"? The spine is straight from most of the handle through where the point drops. It might be the angle of the picture. Here is another pic for reference

Specs are:
Chef knife is 8.25" long, 2" wide, and 3/32" at the thickest part with a full distil taper
Pearing knife is 4" long, 1" wide, and also 3/32" with distil taper
Both have O1 steel hardened to 60/61
Wood is Smokey Quilted Maple
Bolsters and corby bolts are all Nickel Silver
Both have full flat grind.

20120301_081959.jpg
Click to expand...

It looks better in this picture. Still read this and I hope I have explained myself a bit clearer.

The Birds Head is the end of the handle that resembles a BirdsHead if you hold it handle on top.

What I'm suggesting is to drop the tip of the blade more so the birds head sits up higher so there is less chance of hitting your knuckles if someone is working in the middle of the cutting board.

it that a bit clearer?

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
Thank you guys!

Laurence, I see what you are talking about now. When I first read "birdshead", for some reason I thought "what is a bird shead"... I didn't think "what is a bird's head" lol

The handle on the Gyuto is about 5.5" from bolster to end. When I use chef knives I usually do the pinch grip and am far away from the end of the handle but that's not to say that everyone cuts like that. My wife likes to put her finger on the spine and point at the food as she cuts. I think it is her way of scolding even the food too!
 
jawilder said:
Thank you guys!

Laurence, I see what you are talking about now. When I first read "birdshead", for some reason I thought "what is a bird shead"... I didn't think "what is a bird's head" lol

The handle on the Gyuto is about 5.5" from bolster to end. When I use chef knives I usually do the pinch grip and am far away from the end of the handle but that's not to say that everyone cuts like that. My wife likes to put her finger on the spine and point at the food as she cuts. I think it is her way of scolding even the food too!
Click to expand...

She even scolds the food? LOL!
I didn't know if you were planing on selling these in the future. Just a pointer to watch for.
Some of us Dummy's in the USA actually use the handle once in a while. LOL

Also J, You asked if this posting was in the right place? I am not a Moderator here but I post questions like this is Shop Talk, In the Knife Maker Forum.

Keep up the great work.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
I normally would post this in the shoptalk, but I figured some of the kitchen knife guys might frequent this area more often.
 
On the topic of Kitchen knife grinds and getting the blades very thin - are you all finish grinding post HT to get them that thin? Just curious because the long thin blades tend to be a bear to HT but grinding after brings heating the blade into play. Just curious. Let me know if I should post this ?? elsewhere

Bob Urban
 
Bob,
I personally have just profiled my Stainless Steel Culinary knives and done all or different degrees of the grinding POST Heat treat.
I just make a pass once or twice on the Platen and dunk then wipe,Pass & dunk then wipe.Repeat...

You will get a crisper cleaner grind no matter if it's a Vee or Hollow Grind etc.

I wear these average leather glove thickness thumb protectors while grinding, When the heat starts to come thru to my thumbs while grinding a Heat Treated blade, It's time to dunk!

You will develop a feel for it overtime.

Does that help?

happy grinding.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
Grinding post HT is also the way I do it, can't seen to keep the thinner steel from getting all curly at the edge!
For stock removal blades I usually stert with stock @ .100 to .105, profile, drill then HT, then start grinding.
Sharp Ceramic belts and paying attention to the heat build up, especially at the tip. It's a feel thing, but not much of a learnign curve.
Just remember if its too hot to hold comfortably, its getting too hot!

God Bless
Mike
 
There is a blending of some degree of these terms for these grinds and you can combine them as well.
Such as a Hollow grind with a Scandi edge. Or a full flat grind with a Con-vexed bottom third.
then there is a chisel grind with a shallow one sided hollow grind, used on some Japanese Deba type Chef or Yaganagi slicer knives.

The combined possibility of different grinds is up to you!
If you see a combined combination of grinds that you think has merit? Give it a try and see how it works!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
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