hamon question ?
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TacticallySharp
KNIFE MAKER
A hamon is a form of differentially hardening a blade. The edge is harder and the spine softer. Resulting in a tougher blade. A fully hardened blade will result in a harder blade but, not necessarily a better blade. Heat treating should be based on the function of the tool.
And Yes, hamons are cool looking too!
And Yes, hamons are cool looking too!
kevin - the professor
Well-Known Member
hamons are best on low hardenability steel. there is a ton of info available on forums about this. You want low manganese in the alloy, and there is a little effect of carbon amount but it is small relative to the manganese. No chromium, or only a micro amount. None is probably best.
Aldo's 1075, W2, W1, 1095 (again, get Aldo's or otherwise make sure you are getting the 1095 with the low end of the manganese content). These are your friends for hamons.
Other steels (like O1, L6, 52100, 5160, 80CrV2, etc.) you are better off just using a differential temper. Harden and temper the whole thing, then protect the edge/lower half of the knife by putting it in water or between plates or covering with wet cloth. Get a propane torch, and heat the spine half of the blade until it turns pale blue.
have fun!
Aldo's 1075, W2, W1, 1095 (again, get Aldo's or otherwise make sure you are getting the 1095 with the low end of the manganese content). These are your friends for hamons.
Other steels (like O1, L6, 52100, 5160, 80CrV2, etc.) you are better off just using a differential temper. Harden and temper the whole thing, then protect the edge/lower half of the knife by putting it in water or between plates or covering with wet cloth. Get a propane torch, and heat the spine half of the blade until it turns pale blue.
have fun!
Doug Lester
Well-Known Member
One thing that people usually don't recognize about hamoms is that they don't do anything. Yes, they look kind of neat and people think that they make a superior blade-but they don't. They just show that there has been differential hardening of the blade, something that would exist even if the blade didn't show the hamon (assuming that differential hardening was done in the first place).
As Kevin said, the 5160 that you are using isn't very good for creating a hamon with. It's not just the manganese but the chromium content that will be fighting you. You might be able to produce one with a heavy coating of clay but I doubt that it would be very strong. You could do something similar by edge quenching the blade and then etching it but that's more of a quench line than a real hamom. It just doesn't have the same pattern as the real thing.
Doug
As Kevin said, the 5160 that you are using isn't very good for creating a hamon with. It's not just the manganese but the chromium content that will be fighting you. You might be able to produce one with a heavy coating of clay but I doubt that it would be very strong. You could do something similar by edge quenching the blade and then etching it but that's more of a quench line than a real hamom. It just doesn't have the same pattern as the real thing.
Doug
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
5160 is a tough fight for a "good" hamon, as Doug mentioned. Personally, I've done considerable testing with blades incorporating hamons. and personally I've come to understand that they are more "eye candy" then anything. That's not to take anything away for folks who do them.... it takes time, and skill to get a hamon to "pop". Its just one more variation that can be applied to a blade. "Better" or "worse" is all in the eye of the beholder.
kevin - the professor
Well-Known Member
yeah, to chime in with Ed and Doug, hamons don't do much structurally that makes a knife better.
A sword, well, that is another story. Hamon means something like, "badge," in Japanese. It is a visual proof of good heat treatment, and makes a sword that will bend an not break.
I LOVE hamons, and I put them on almost all monosteel knives I make, because of their beauty. I have spent many years working at improving my ability in this area (also because the Chinese, who I am often emulating, created the technology, so I need to use it).
Here is where I am chiming in with Ed and Doug - even the Chinese quit using hamons when they found how to make swords that were complete springs. Hamons prevent cracking to a large extent, but you can make a lighter and more efficient blade (in terms of geometry) with a blade tempered like a spring (for a sword). At least, the blade can be thinner and unlikely to bend and also unlikely to break, and since it can be thinner, it uses less valuable steel and cuts better. Every culture that used hamons except the Japanese stopped once they could make steel well enough to just spring temper the whole sword.
Don't let that discourage you. Just approach hamons as a work of art and embellishment. They are ephemeral beauty inside and on the surface of steel. What could be better than that? FYI, the Chinese called the same thing a shangxue. which means, "snow crystals."
They are beautiful, and it is the beauty juxtaposed with the strength and wicked sharp vicious goodness that draws me to them. sort of like a beautiful woman wielding a sword (Uma Thurman, anyone?).
A sword, well, that is another story. Hamon means something like, "badge," in Japanese. It is a visual proof of good heat treatment, and makes a sword that will bend an not break.
I LOVE hamons, and I put them on almost all monosteel knives I make, because of their beauty. I have spent many years working at improving my ability in this area (also because the Chinese, who I am often emulating, created the technology, so I need to use it).
Here is where I am chiming in with Ed and Doug - even the Chinese quit using hamons when they found how to make swords that were complete springs. Hamons prevent cracking to a large extent, but you can make a lighter and more efficient blade (in terms of geometry) with a blade tempered like a spring (for a sword). At least, the blade can be thinner and unlikely to bend and also unlikely to break, and since it can be thinner, it uses less valuable steel and cuts better. Every culture that used hamons except the Japanese stopped once they could make steel well enough to just spring temper the whole sword.
Don't let that discourage you. Just approach hamons as a work of art and embellishment. They are ephemeral beauty inside and on the surface of steel. What could be better than that? FYI, the Chinese called the same thing a shangxue. which means, "snow crystals."
They are beautiful, and it is the beauty juxtaposed with the strength and wicked sharp vicious goodness that draws me to them. sort of like a beautiful woman wielding a sword (Uma Thurman, anyone?).