Hamon procedure

K

Kev

Well-Known Member
I’m experimenting with hamons on some 1075 and I was wondering what sanding and etching program everyone is using?
26586AA7-814C-4671-A267-5501190D6801.jpeg
This is what I have so far.

Thanks in advance.
 
Kev - There are thousands of ways to complete this process. I hand sand to 600 grit. Eliminate every imperfection. Then I use enchant on the blade for a minute or so. Wipe down with make up remover pad. Inspect it. And repeat until I am satisfied with the result. Usually 5-8 steps. Then, I soak the entire blade in old motor oil for 24-48 hours. Now, the fun part. Polishing. I start with steel wool and Flitz. Rub, clean, rub, clean, rub, clean until satisfies. I then repeat with a commercial polishing pad and Flitz. Again, until satisfied. It is the polishing steps that make the hamon really pop. Usually takes several hours over a couple of days.
 
Get some 1500grit silicon carbide powder from ebay. I'm gonna update my WIP tomorrow morning on how I did the Hamon on my kith bowie with some pics. Green filtz is good to get too, depending what kind of look you want.
 
Dennis Morland said:
Then, I soak the entire blade in old motor oil for 24-48 hours.
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Dennis- what’s the theory/purpose of the used motor oil soak? Does the carbon particulate in the old oil collect in the pores of the hamon line and darken it?

If so then that makes sense. I wonder if dry graphite powder like used for lubricating locks and hinges would have the same effect if used in conjunction with wet sanding / polishing. Just kinda thinking out loud here...

Thanks, andy
 
Merle said:
Dennis- what’s the theory/purpose of the used motor oil soak? Does the carbon particulate in the old oil collect in the pores of the hamon line and darken it?

If so then that makes sense. I wonder if dry graphite powder like used for lubricating locks and hinges would have the same effect if used in conjunction with wet sanding / polishing. Just kinda thinking out loud here...

Thanks, andy
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I wonder if strong coffee would accomplish the same thing? I know many makers use coffee to increase contrast in their Damascus. I would think the process would be similar.

Not that I'm suggesting wasting good coffee. :)
 
Andy-I have no idea about the science behind the motor oil. I cannot even remember who told me to do it. When I first tried a hamon, someone suggested the motor oil so I tried it. It works for me. I kept doing it.
 
If you search under Gene Kimmi he posted his Harmon process a while back. It is different from D-Mo’s so you can get a look at another process. I am gonna have to try the used oil thingy though I am dying to see the difference it makes.
 
Chris Railey said:
I am gonna have to try the used oil thingy though I am dying to see the difference it makes.
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Why? I mean seriously.....this is the first time I've EVER even heard anyone mention that soaking a hardened blade in old used motor has any effect on a hardened blade with hamon, let alone any positive effect. And he cant even tell you what it does or remember who told him, or why he's doing it.

Now you're dying to try it? And now you don't even know why. I mean, trying new things is fine but they should have some basis or merit from facts or the very least....common sense.

Do most makers just have some deep-seeded emotional attachment to old used motor oil? I mean we just are starting to get guys past the idea that its a great quenchant. Now its going to be the next magic hamon snake oil?

There are literally dozens of tutorials on line by guys that have more experience with hamon than most of the members here combined....and not one that I've ever seen mentioned soaking a blade in old used motor oil.

And I'm friends with and have spoken at length to 3 of arguably the best in the business at creating hamon and none of them have anything resembling soaking a blade in used motor oil. Maybe we're all missing something.

I'm sorry but this is exactly how bad information or at least misinformation spreads.....the blind leading the blind with no logical or practical reason and can't explain why....but by golly it works.

Maybe I'm having a bad day or maybe I've grown too critical or cynical too be of much use any more, but this is yet another stark example of no one doing any research and a few makers relatively inexperienced in creating hamon starting to teach and do WIPS because they can get some "awesome hamons" on their 1084.

You know what.....disregard all the above....if you guys want to waste time and make messes soaking your blades in old motor oil because it makes your hamon more awesome, knock yourselves out.
 
John Doyle is right. The use of motor oil may do nothing to the blade in the creation of a hamon. I certainly cannot explain the science behind it. I also cannot explain the law of gravity. But it works. As I indicated, when I started trying to work on a hamon, someone suggested that I try using it. I did, I liked the result, I have continued to do it that way. Other makers may disagree. I am okay with that. Like I said, there are thousands of ways to create a hamon. I also mentioned a product called Flitz. I use it, it works for me. Other makers may disagree. Again, I am okay with that. Andy, I wish you luck in your quest/experimentation in the creation of a hamon. In the end, all that is important is that you are satisfied with the end result.
 
Just because it’s not mainstream knowledge does not mean 100% that it will do nothing. If everyone stuck with what everyone says then we would still be driving horses to work and blood letting to cure disease. It’s ok to experiment guys, have a sense of adventure heck just curiosity. Once I try it I will know for myself. Dennis presented no false information he was asked what his process was and he responded. He was even clear to add he does not know what it is supposed to do. I wish to try it so I can see for myself if there is a difference...Then I will know...There, research done, and I will be able to say I tried it and saw xxxx.
 
You missed the point Chris....experimenting is fine but experimenting is almost always based on known facts about the materials/processes and EDUCATED guesses.

Its akin to saying that I might go to the pasture and collect some horse urine to soak my Damascus blades in after I etch them because it "might do something cool, who knows".
 
Well, horse urine would be acidic if they are on a cereal based diet so it should do something in developing a hamon...lol. In seriousness though, I get your point, no on the surface I do not see ( in my limited knowledge of chemistry or metallurgy) what used motor oil would do to a hamon but I really like D-Mo’s work so I would try for myself before making a comment that there is no way it would make a difference. Once I tried it, or read about someone trying it I would give an opinion, but that is all It would be, an opinion.
 
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I was postulating that perhaps the hamon line is a bit more open / porous on the surface on s microscopic level, and the old dirty oil particulate might collect in the pores, accentuating the line.

I’m going to keep my cracked cleaver project and experiment on each side to see if I can draw any conclusions.

Andy
 
J. Doyle said:
Why? I mean seriously.....this is the first time I've EVER even heard anyone mention that soaking a hardened blade in old used motor has any effect on a hardened blade with hamon, let alone any positive effect. And he cant even tell you what it does or remember who told him, or why he's doing it.

Now you're dying to try it? And now you don't even know why. I mean, trying new things is fine but they should have some basis or merit from facts or the very least....common sense.

Do most makers just have some deep-seeded emotional attachment to old used motor oil? I mean we just are starting to get guys past the idea that its a great quenchant. Now its going to be the next magic hamon snake oil?

There are literally dozens of tutorials on line by guys that have more experience with hamon than most of the members here combined....and not one that I've ever seen mentioned soaking a blade in old used motor oil.

And I'm friends with and have spoken at length to 3 of arguably the best in the business at creating hamon and none of them have anything resembling soaking a blade in used motor oil. Maybe we're all missing something.

I'm sorry but this is exactly how bad information or at least misinformation spreads.....the blind leading the blind with no logical or practical reason and can't explain why....but by golly it works.

Maybe I'm having a bad day or maybe I've grown too critical or cynical too be of much use any more, but this is yet another stark example of no one doing any research and a few makers relatively inexperienced in creating hamon starting to teach and do WIPS because they can get some "awesome hamons" on their 1084.

You know what.....disregard all the above....if you guys want to waste time and make messes soaking your blades in old motor oil because it makes your hamon more awesome, knock yourselves out.
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John,
In my opinion you are a very gifted and skilled maker, with tons of experience and you make knives that simply astounds me. Understand therefore that I have the highest opinion of you. In the same tone, your opinion on any knife making topic bears much weight.
Therefore, by what I hope to convey now is in no way to take away from my above mentioned opinions.
The factual basis of the comments in your post, I cannot fault, but the tone comes across as somewhat condensending. You may not necessarily have meant it that way, and I can be wrong in my perception. I am am happy to be proven wrong and will gladly apologise if I am, but I do feel the conviction to express my feeling on this matter.
 
Johan Nel said:
John,
In my opinion you are a very gifted and skilled maker, with tons of experience and you make knives that simply astounds me. Understand therefore that I have the highest opinion of you. In the same tone, your opinion on any knife making topic bears much weight.
Therefore, by what I hope to convey now is in no way to take away from my above mentioned opinions.
The factual basis of the comments in your post, I cannot fault, but the tone comes across as somewhat condensending. You may not necessarily have meant it that way, and I can be wrong in my perception. I am am happy to be proven wrong and will gladly apologise if I am, but I do feel the conviction to express my feeling on this matter.
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Hi Johan. Thanks for your post and your directness.

I could see how my post could seem condescending, however I assure you that wasn't my intent.

Frustration would be the most accurate word to describe the general theme of my post.

I tend to speak frankly and don't often sugar-coat things. I can be blunt and direct....even more so when frustrated.
 
Sean Jones said:
John does make a good point. I withdraw the coffee suggestion. I will stick to simply drinking it.
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I don't think that trying a coffee etch is a bad idea. As you stated it's used all the time on Damascus. The dark rich color it produces has me intrigued, and I'll be experimenting with it here soon on some hamon. Worst case scenario is it was a horrible idea and I'll ruin a knife..... It wouldn't be the first time or the last time I throw one in the trash. Give it a try you never know.
 
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