Grinding alone....?

Smallshop

Smallshop

KNIFE MAKER
So...I have come to realize that I cannot grind worth a darn if someone is watching. I have NEVER liked working with an audience...but grinding is a whole 'nuther zone! GO AWAY PLEASE....lol

It requires all my focus or I make boo-boos....I am getting ready to make a simple fixture for my small knives as I have a lot...and want to skip the boo-boos. The one-offs, though, definitely need alone time.

Am I the only one? or do you experienced guys like the interest...

I'm pretty sure all the FAB shows on TV have pre-conditioned everyone to drool when they see sparks....cut off wheels, mig welders,forging, plasma cutters, knife grinders....like moths to a flame. You ever see an ad for one of these shows? Yes...a close up of sparks....

No-one has ever asked to watch me glue handles....(which I would say no to also....)
 
I'm with you Ted. I don't want to grind when anyone else is around. I had a friend say " I'd like to come over and watch you make a knife". I thought to myself, well that's going to be about a 12 hour visit (with sheath, normalizing, quenching etc.). My response was, sure come on over and I'll show you my shop :)
 
opaul said:
I'm with you Ted. I don't want to grind when anyone else is around. I had a friend say " I'd like to come over and watch you make a knife". I thought to myself, well that's going to be about a 12 hour visit (with sheath, normalizing, quenching etc.). My response was, sure come on over and I'll show you my shop :)
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Wow 12 hours. No wonder you are able to make so many. Congrats.

It takes me weeks to complete a knife, start to finish. Now I can't work on them every day. Just a few hours here and there after work or on weekends.

I've never had anyone want to watch but I'm a loner by nature so I doubt I could put up with someone looking over my shoulder.
 
Motor City Mike said:
Wow 12 hours. No wonder you are able to make so many. Congrats.

It takes me weeks to complete a knife, start to finish. Now I can't work on them every day. Just a few hours here and there after work or on weekends.

I've never had anyone want to watch but I'm a loner by nature so I doubt I could put up with someone looking over my shoulder.
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What's the total time? I spread mine out as well, but I'm semi-retired so I get to spend a little extra shop time.
 
Ted I feel your pain! I have heard from the moment I started all this, "jigs are for sissies" and it is all about muscle memory! Well this may be true however I am not making a living at this. Sometimes I wonder if I am even breaking even!! :eek::D

So as more of a part timer, (don't like the term hobbyist, it ain't a hobby for me but,....) I have to work within a lot of constraints. Money being one. If a tool breaks down and it is something I have to spend money to put back into service sometimes it is weeks before I can free-up what I need. I considered here a while back about giving all this up and moving into an apartment or such. Wouldn't have no grass to tackle, leaves to pick up, no house to keep up and then there is the big one for me, "won't have a reason to live". I told the wife it might be that way someday but right now I am not ready to crawl in a box and wait to die!! :confused:
My wife's illness takes the forefront and often the knives fall by the way. And then my health seems to play a part as well and, well...……...

You get the point, "muscle memory" for me is hard to keep up and NO when I am working on a grind I don't want any help. My solution was to build a jig that would work except, I didn't have the equipment to build the precision into the grinding jig. So if it is cheating , well if it worked like it should have, then I would have cheated. The prototype worked but there was no way near the level of precision I was hoping for. I have been fabricating for years and so in theory if worked, in practical use, not so much!!!

Alas nowadays, I get ready to grind one and I will get out some scrap steel and work for a while on it till, I feel I am ready to tackle another blade. Most times it works however there is a bucket of scrap by the wall. When it gets full I sale it for scrap and go buy some new blade steel!!
 
It doesn't bother me to have people over to watch, my problem is I don't really have room for more than one person-me- in my shop. I've had people stand at my door and watch, what does bother me are folks that can't stop talking, when I get that tip I gust stop doing anything that needs concentrating and talk with them.

Not only do I risk screwing something up but getting hurt somehow if someone is constantly talking to me.
In short....I work best alone.
 
I dont like having some one in my shed when I am doing things but not for the reasons of having them look over my shoulder, it is because when someone shows an interest in what I a doing it generally that requires conversation to impart that and I dont talk when I am concentrating so it is a choice between talking or watching e work as the two dont go together.

As far as jigs go I made the simplest jig that is quick to set up for any of the different knives I do and is repeatable from set-up to set-up and back again.
 
opaul said:
What's the total time? I spread mine out as well, but I'm semi-retired so I get to spend a little extra shop time.
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I probably spend 20-25 hrs on a fixed blade and at least double that on a folder.

I work 12-15 hrs a day and have a hard time getting any time in the shop. And when I do it takes me a good 20 minutes to back into the "groove" where I can get some good work done.
 
I remember the same quotes about jigs when I started and I too fell for the allure of the freehand grind. I have spent many an hour standing in front of my grinder screwing up blade after blade refusing to use a jig. I remember asking an experienced smith if he recommended a newby trying to grind freehand and his response was "only if you are willing to suffer sucessive failures until you learn". Man was he correct. A year later I can finally do a decent Scandi and flat grind and I can sharpen freehand but only because I used a bubble jig to help develop muscle memory.
 
Chris....I avoid the subtle (or not so subtle...lol) pressure that you are no craftsman if you use jigs or fixtures to make knives....to that group I say...PLEASE THROW AWAY YOUR EXPENSIVE KNIFE GRINDER....and then we can talk about legacy skills....LOL!

When I was young and in grade school we were told by teachers that what separated us from the apes was the ability to make and use TOOLS.....(Jane Goodal catches a chimp on film using a stick to pull ants out of an ant hill and the whole field of anthropology freaks out...lol...pretty shaky definition of what seperates man from animals methinks...lol)

Then dad sent me to trade school and after I did an apprenticeship as a TOOLMAKER....(maybe he took corrective action 'cause he didn't like all my monkeying around and where I was headed...lol)

Today...as a seasoned machinist/toolmaker I will ALWAYS attempt to make anything I do better by building a tool...if i can justify the time spent. That was pounded into me and I love making a quality tool as much as a quality knife....because hey....I am no ape....lol.

That being said Knifemaking is VERY difficult to make easy with tools/jigs....EVERYTHING is so "free-form" from handles, to blade shape,to nice grinds, to finishes, etc....that there will always be hand skills involved. As a guy who has had to make things exactly alike according to a blueprint....I marvel at some of the high end production blades....I know what it takes to do that...

When I read things like, "No two of my blades are the same"...I think...yeah...course not....repetition in mfg requires its own set of disciplines....and is WAY more difficult than folks who haven't done it realize....

I can't sand a bit more here...or grind a bit more there to rescue a boo-boo...if it's outta print it's trash...start over.

So whatever your "bent" is....is what you'll gravitate to....My personal challenge is to use my equipment, skills, experience, etc...to make BEAUTIFUL knives in a semi-production fashion....I have been at it three years now and am getting closer...lol. I hope to make a living at it soon....will I? Dunno....every step has been more work than I thought it would be.

Most of my fixtures are only at prototype stage to prove a concept...then when i get to semi production point...it's make 'em over to work more efficiently...not there yet...and WAY MORE hand work than I thought I would end up doing...but still very fun. The handwork become a "consistency of process" issue more than "what tool can i build to simplify this"...

If your goal is to freehand everything...work at it till you get there. If you want to say "custom hand-made knife" on your work...you should certainly do as much work freehand as possible so your personality consistently shines through your work...

I don't know how I got on this tangent...and this is prolly way more Ted philosophy than anyone wanted to hear on a Saturday...(or any other day...lol) But i wrote it...so I'm posting it!!!

No disrespect meant to anyone...you're all excellent folk and how you make you knives and think about knifemaking is groovy with me....I have never seen a more quality oriented group of people....and I love seeing what everyone comes up with!
 
I really like your point about throwing out the fancy grinders before talking too far on hand made. Never thought of that. I was a smith before I started making blades and I made my first knife with a hammer, a fire and some files...that was it. I may have to start a thread where we post pictures of our very first knife and our most recent knife side by side as an encouragement to those just starting out.
 
Ted I agree with you and no problem with fixtures and jigs.

It still takes skill and experience no matter how many jigs you have.

If you take someone that's brand new with no experience and give him a jig and a pile of materials chances are you'll get the same quality product you would without jigs.

That said I don't use jigs for grinding the blade. I want to be able to do it free hand.

But when I make a folder I have jigs to finalize the lock face as well as the lock bar.
I also use a rotary table to cut the stop pin relief. Would it be better to cut it free hand? Of course not. Why not use the tools (including jigs) that make work easier?
 
Motor City Mike said:
Why not use the tools (including jigs) that make work easier?
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And.....better....(most times) Some things are better free hand though.

I actually love freehand grinding...It's a challenge...and I'm getting better...but I can't do it consistent enough to repeat well. So if I'm going to sell a "model" of knife...it better repeat...lol.

I like grinding because the world goes away for a bit...gotta be relaxed and focused...
 
There is one other benefit to grinding freehand. I have a few really good knives I have kept for myself after starting to make them for a customer and messing up a plunge line or some other mistake I just could not let out of my shop. They work just as well, I just don't put my mark on them...
 
I like to freehand grind. For me it's easier than setting up a jig. That said I tried one I couldn't get the hang of it! I do use a file guide to set my plunge though. I guess that's a jig of sorts. When I grind I use a lot of sharpie marker on the blade to keep check on my progress. I'm getting to the point of knowing how I need to twist turn blade etc... to correct my screw ups! Something I've noticed too, if you don't mess up a blank now and then you ain't grinding!! Just the nature of the beast!
 
Smallshop said:
And.....better....(most times) Some things are better free hand though.

I actually love freehand grinding...It's a challenge...and I'm getting better...but I can't do it consistent enough to repeat well. So if I'm going to sell a "model" of knife...it better repeat...lol.

I like grinding because the world goes away for a bit...gotta be relaxed and focused...
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Me too, Ted.

I loved grinding a blade freehand. As you said, the rest of the world goes away.

I built stands for my belt sanders so that I could sit on a stool with my legs on each side and grind, turn, match, etc. etc. until the blade was finished. For me, that was the only way to go. I don't think I spent over an hour on a blade before heat treat, then a quick cleanup for finishing.
 
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