Frame Handle bowie

Alden Cole

Alden Cole

Well-Known Member
I'm about to start working on a Frame handle bowie. I've been looking through some of Bruce Bumps threads and they are really helpful! I've never really made a hidden tang knife, so I will probably have some more questions as I move on with this project. Help and comments appreciated! First question, does this drawing look about right for internals? 20210128_183726.jpg20210128_183645.jpg
 
I know folks build in different manners, but when I build anything with a frame handle, I always have a mechanical method from the butt end. In my case, I often use a small clevis on the end of the tang, threaded 4-40, with a 4-40 screw through the rear of the frame. If that's a pin hole on the side of the handle in your drawing, those are a royal pain to try to get things aligned, and tight at the same time.

EDIT!! I had the wrong link for the ones I use...... It's now corrected! Here's the clevis I use... https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006O8O7Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I drill a 1/16" hole through the end of tang, spread the clevis and insert the pin through the hole (one side springs back into place), and you have enough "motion" to allow everything to be drawn up tight..... without pulling anything off, one way or another. I use these clevises for just about anything I build with a buttcap, or a "through tang" type of construction. I personally choose to glue everything up anyway.....but if you're neat and tidy, it makes for a great take-down type construction too. I just choose to glue, because I've had far too many clients wreck "take downs" in the past....everything from stripping threads, to scaring up fittings.....and then wanting me to repair their mistakes for free.

I also counterbore the hole through the back of the handle frame to fit the head of the 4-40 screw I use....or sometimes will even turn down the head if I choose. Some filework and/or coloring on the screw head adds a nice tough of detail.
 
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I just finished my first...I did it like Ed described. I like the idea of being able to draw everything tight with a screw. i countered xtra deep so I will have to make a glue-in cap...(working on that now)
I designed it as a take down but Ed's wisdom prevailed...when I saw a family member try to assemble I knew it was the right choice...Lol!
Long live epoxy....! Lol!

Post pics as you go! Have fun!

143300992_116960903575261_9051403263736430930_n.jpg
 
First, let me say that I would listen to Ed or Ted before me but I will post because my method is different. I actually weld (or braze) my frame to my tang because I have figured out a way to do so without messing up my HT or making the tang brittle. I do this mainly because I like welding. It does end up a strong connection though. 213DF5E0-EA9A-4822-B922-3339E8482B92.jpeg
 
Thanks for the help guys. I don't have a tapping and threading set and have never tapped or threaded anything in my (rather short) life. I'm sure a friend would loan me a set if I needed to though. I see how it would be difficult to line up the pin in the tang with the handle. I've seen people drill about a 3/8 hole in their tang and peen a brass plug into it. That way you can drill all the way through your handle with less chance of your bit breaking. Seem like that would work? Better or worse than tapping?

Chris, that sounds like it would work great, unless you were wanting to do file worked liners etc. I'd like to have everything shaped prior to glue up, if that makes sense.

Thank you!
 
I weld the frame to the tang right after I fit my guard. In essence, after I weld my frame on, the rest of the work is exactly like finishing a regular full tang knife.
 
If you are doing those little nubs (nomenclature? ) at the end of the frame to secure your guard I did that 2 frame handle knives ago, I found it pretty tricky to get a really good fit so I went back to using pins. The system Bruce Bump uses makes sense and is probably easy for him.
 
So I think I'll do what Mr. Bump did here, maybe not as many pins as he did, and maybe not hidden, but it seems like it should work for me. I might also use line up pins instead of those little nubs, like Gilbert suggested. https://knifedogs.com/threads/double-guard-and-framed-handle-rear-bolsters-too.33540/ page 5. Thanks for all the help guys, I'll try to post pics as I go along, and will definetily have more questions. Someday I'd like to do a takedown, but I don't think I want to tackle that on this project.
 
You can do a stick tang through a guard and into the handle relatively easily. However, if you want the look and possibly the strength of a full tang handle fitting a guard, especially double branch, can be a problem. A frame, or coke bottle, or whatever you want to call it handle gets you around it. You fit the guard on the tang then braze or weld the tang into the frame and then fit the scales.

BTW the sketch of the knife handle above does not make it clear that the tang goes through the guard..

Doug
 
I guess the advantage to a frame handle is that you can do a double guard along with anything else you could do with a full tang.

Mr. Lester: I can't imagine how you could get a double guard on a full tang knife. Do you have any pictures?
 
Alden Cole said:
I guess the advantage to a frame handle is that you can do a double guard along with anything else you could do with a full tang.

Mr. Lester: I can't imagine how you could get a double guard on a full tang knife. Do you have any pictures?
Click to expand...
Alden , take a look at my kith from last year . both the wip and Randy's write of it . may be some helpful hints for you.
 
You can put a full double guard on a full tang knife as long as the tang is not wider than the recoso. The great advantage of a frame handle is you use less high carbon steel and you can use scales,that comes into play when using high end handle materials,both of these benefits came into play in the Bowie knife hay day especially in the san Francisco area,it enabled the use of shell and ivory much much easier.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
I know folks build in different manners, but when I build anything with a frame handle, I always have a mechanical method from the butt end. In my case, I often use a small clevis on the end of the tang, threaded 4-40, with a 4-40 screw through the rear of the frame. If that's a pin hole on the side of the handle in your drawing, those are a royal pain to try to get things aligned, and tight at the same time.

Here's the clevis I use... https://www.amazon.com/Du-Bro-604-Solder-Kwik-Link-12-Pack/dp/B0006O8U0C/ref=sr_1_12?crid=209J113X937KL&dchild=1&keywords=4-40+clevis&qid=1611927009&sprefix=4-40+cle,aps,220&sr=8-12
I drill a 1/16" hole through the end of tang, spread the clevis and insert the pin through the hole (one side springs back into place), and you have enough "motion" to allow everything to be drawn up tight..... without pulling anything off, one way or another. I use these clevises for just about anything I build with a buttcap, or a "through tang" type of construction. I personally choose to glue everything up anyway.....but if you're neat and tidy, it makes for a great take-down type construction too. I just choose to glue, because I've had far too many clients wreck "take downs" in the past....everything from stripping threads, to scaring up fittings.....and then wanting me to repair their mistakes for free.

I also counterbore the hole through the back of the handle frame to fit the head of the 4-40 screw I use....or sometimes will even turn down the head if I choose. Some filework and/or coloring on the screw head adds a nice tough of detail.
Click to expand...
Ed- thank you for the frequent and exceptional skill tips you share with us. I’m taking this one to the bank.
edit to add
Would love to see a photo if you have a few on the construction.
 
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Alrighty, question number two on this build! I have got the blade rough profiled by now (I know, slow) and am guessing I don't need to worry about working on the frame and fittings until the blade is pretty much done. However, I need to pick a frame material and order some, most likely. The blade is made of 440c, and I could do the frame from that too. Only problem there is that it is probably harder to shape than any other material I would use. The client said he wanted brass fittings, so I could order some brass in the blades thickness and use that. Or I could buy 416ss, mild steel, etc. What do you think is the best option. Thanks
 
If he would allow it I would use 416 over brass...if his heart is set on brass...then brass it is. That 416 is nice to work with...and it looks rich. Jmo
 
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