Files

Mike Martinez

Mike Martinez

Well-Known Member
So, I'm stopping by Grainger tomorrow to pick a few odds and ends... while there I'd also like to pick up a few files to work blades by hand when I can't use my grinder. ( I tend to shy away from grinding when the wind picks up or when it rains as I have to keep the garage door down to keep the dust from flying everywhere.) Any suggestions on files would be much appreciated.
 
It's been awhile,
But a Bast@rd or Rat tale removes the most metal, Then I had the Second Cut for second.
Then a Finish or fine was the progression Then it was sandpaper time! about 120G on down.
I bought most of mine used and annealed the lousy ones and used the Best to file them so I may not have the progression in textbook form, But that is generally how it goes.

Someday I may buy a full set of nice new ones and make a few with files myself again.
Or couse don't buy any Chinese files.
Get American or European, I don't know anything about Japanese files?

Have Fun!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
I have some of the Japanese Iwasaki files. They cut a bit differently. I use them on handle material usually, especially woods, but some softer materials they tend to chip out a bit. I have used them on brass, SS and Nickel Silver and Mosaic pins, but I try to avoid using them on pins so they stay sharp. Get a good file card/file cleaner and use it often. Files tend to get little "pins" in the teeth, which will leave deeeeeeep scratches on whatever you are filing.
 
Larger files cut more aggresively, so for hogging off material, get the biggest one you can find. Large half round files are very aggressive. Mill bastards are less so. I'd get the biggest half round file I could find, then a medium sized mill @@@@@@@, then a small mill @@@@@@@, and then a lot of sandpaper. As mentioned, get a good file card and keep your file clean, and get some chalk to help keep it from clogging.
 
Mike,

The file cut system works kinda like sanpaper. Rough to start, smooth to finish.

As noted above, the size of the file has an impact on the cut. Even though two differently-sized files will be designated with the same cut, the actual cut will be different. For instance, a 6 inch Bast#rd file will be smoother than a 12 inch Bast#rd file.

The American system uses three degrees of coarsness, each having a "name" for the type of cut. Bast#rd, Second, Smooth.
The European system (primarily Swiss, but also German) uses a "number" system to designate degrees of coarsness. For instance, 00 would be very coarse, while 4 would be fine cut, almost feeling like sandpaper.

The Swiss-cut files are more expensive because stricter quality control must be present due to the greater number of cut designations.

Nicholson offers both the American-cut system and the Swiss-cut system.

Personally, I stay away from the files made in China, India, or Pakistan. In my experience, most of it is low quality that doesn't last.

Nicholson is the American standard.
Traditionally, USA-made is preferred, but you'll have to find a supplier with old inventory. The overwhelming majority of their American-cut line is now made in Brazil or China.
Not to worry, because I've used a bunch of the made-in-Brazil files, and the quality is every bit as good as the old stuff.
I have not tried the lower-cost Nicholsons that are made in China.


I have over 800 files of various shapes, sizes, and cuts, and better than half of that inventory is Nicholson.

Check your PM.


Rob
 
What Ed said! I used to buy cheap files until I discovered that for the money I was spending on a couple of el cheapo's that didn't last I could buy a good file. I prefer the Nicholson's myself.
 
Other than the el cheapo files, Nicholson, Aurio?? ( the handmade expensive French ones), Iwasaki, what other brands are out there??? Those are the only ones I ever hear about usually?? What are some of the Swiss and German brands?? I like the Nicholson, but am curious as to other nice brands!
 
Taz575 said:
Other than the el cheapo files, Nicholson, Aurio?? ( the handmade expensive French ones), Iwasaki, what other brands are out there??? Those are the only ones I ever hear about usually?? What are some of the Swiss and German brands?? I like the Nicholson, but am curious as to other nice brands!
Click to expand...

Simonds is another American brand; sadly, they also outsource (the company's name is Simonds International). IIRC, I have some newer ones that say made in Spain. But from my experience, they seem to work OK for the price.

The German files with which I have expewrience were made by Friedrich Dick (or F. Dick) and those are small files, specifically needle files.
These are good files, and use the "number" system for cut patterns. But the German numbering system is slightly different than the Swiss. For instance, a German No.4 will not be the same as a Swiss No.4.
I have heard that F. Dick was acquired by Contenti, a company that specializes in jewelry supplies.

For true Swiss files, Grobet/Vallorbe is where it's at. Very good quality; more expensive.

The Italians are in it, too, with Corradi being in business for a hundred years or more. Extremely high quality, but probably the most expensive brand I own.

By the way, to the best of my knowledge Auriou (pronounced "are-you") doesn't make files. Their specialty is hand-stitched rasps and rifflers, although they also offer chisels, adzes, drawknives, etc.
The same family has basically ran the company since sometime around the 1850's.
They cater mainly to an "artist" (sculptors) market, meaning those who work with stone, plaster, wood, etc.
Their products are made 100% inhouse from the steel blank to the final product.
Pricey, but they are at the top of their game. The true professional will be hard-pressed to find a rasp that removes material as quickly while still providing a smooth finish.

Speaking of quality, when it comes to these types of cutting tools (files, rasps, etc.) quality doesn't necessarily mean longest tool life (although that's part of the package).
Other considerations for "quality" are what has come to mean "the right tool for the job".
Which tool removes material quickly while still providing the best finish for that type of cut.
Quality control regarding pattern/cut, meaning that when you wear out your No.2 file, you can expect the same performance from its replacement.


Rob
 
I love using files, and find many operations to be faster with file work compared to the grinder. I do a lot of skeleton tangs and don't have a cnc mill, so I will drill a few holes, connect them with a file, rough out with carbide burrs, then finish with files.

I favor the swiss Grobet (Vallorbe) files. I buy them from artcotools.com, otto frei, and any I can find on ebay. They're a bit pricier than the premium Nicholsons (if you can find the old stock american industrial ones) but they're unbeatable in quality. If properly broken in and cared for they'll last years. They also have a super premium line of yellow tang Valtitan files, which I've used only recently, that are RC 72 hardness, and seriously eat steel and alloys for lunch. They're not carbide, just some super hard alloy.

A big consideration for file use is proper break in, which most people have forgotten about. At the very least, you need to work some copper or brass flat stock with low pressure for a handful of minutes before using on steel. A lot of people will tell you to chalk your files, I don't, and I don't feel it helps, but I knock the bottom of the file handles every few strokes, and brush the files often. I don't have much of a prob with pinning on the files I use for steel. I use seperate files for softer metals. I also don't over use the steel bristle side of the file card, and use it with care. If you've got serious loading, a stick of wood or brass/copper can be pushee into the teeth and rubbed in the direction of the cut to remove it.

Another caution about some Nicholson files: some of the big box stores are carrying some new Nicholson's that are stamped USA, but afaik the old nicholson factories here were closed wheb Cooper/Apex bought them. I don't know where these new files are coming from, but they're crap. I bought a large mill to dress the heel of an anvil and it didn't survive the first strokes. It was worth a shot, but the price was the same as the imports, so I figured it was going to go that route.
 
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