Dust collection

[Jimbo670]

So I have been doing a bunch of research on dust collection and sparks here and still have a question. First my plan is to 5 gal water bucket directly under the grinder. I will use metal duct work to it that will about 1' to the water. Then the elbow out the top my craftsman dust collector.
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Would I be better using two collection systems one for wood grinding and one for metal. The issue I see with that is when I am grinding scales what about the spark that might be created by the "pins" or the bolsters? I am in the back half of a garage and can not vent outside.

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[Kurt Krueger]

What you describe sounds similar to my setup. I used a 30 gallon steel trash can instead of a 5 gallon pail, however. I tried to cover the lower end of the duct with a little water, but that foamed up all over the place (I add a little dish soap to the water. That reduces the surface tension on the water and aids in capturing particles in the water bath.) I found that about a inch clearance over the surface of the water works fine.

It's a little difficult to see in the photo, but I think you get the gist of it.

-Kurt

 

[John Wilson]

My setup sounds like what you are describing as well, only mine is ridiculously simple.

I did a "proof of concept" using a 5-gal kitty litter pail and it worked so well I left it as-is.

The inlet of the bucket has a deflector to direct the debris coming into the inlet downward into the water. The exhaust has a deflector for no other reason than to force the air to flow around the deflector in hopes that the confused air flow inside the bucket would allow the water to trap residual debris.

All I can say is it works very well. About once a quarter I empty the dust collector bag. It typically has three or four handfuls of super fine dust in it which is primarily wood.

The bucket's water gets absolutely filled with steel. I dumped it twice in a year. Each time there is a solid sediment brick several inches thick.

The shop stays 95% cleaner. My cleanup after grinding is to use a paint brush to sweep the thin layer of dust and debris around the grinder into the dust collector inlet funnel.

It's stupid simple

the belt grinder and disc grinder feed the same system. I use a slide gate at the inlet funnel to close off the one not being used.

I was worried about the tight bends casing me to lose suction. In practice it's just not an issue- and I've got the cheapie 1hp model from Harbor Freight.




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[Daniel Rohde]

My setup sounds like what you are describing as well, only mine is ridiculously simple.

I did a "proof of concept" using a 5-gal kitty litter pail and it worked so well I left it as-is.

The inlet of the bucket has a deflector to direct the debris coming into the inlet downward into the water. The exhaust has a deflector for no other reason than to force the air to flow around the deflector in hopes that the confused air flow inside the bucket would allow the water to trap residual debris.

All I can say is it works very well. About once a quarter I empty the dust collector bag. It typically has three or four handfuls of super fine dust in it which is primarily wood.

The bucket's water gets absolutely filled with steel. I dumped it twice in a year. Each time there is a solid sediment brick several inches thick.

The shop stays 95% cleaner. My cleanup after grinding is to use a paint brush to sweep the thin layer of dust and debris around the grinder into the dust collector inlet funnel.

It's stupid simple

the belt grinder and disc grinder feed the same system. I use a slide gate at the inlet funnel to close off the one not being used.

I was worried about the tight bends casing me to lose suction. In practice it's just not an issue- and I've got the cheapie 1hp model from Harbor Freight.




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Very nice John! you impress me.

So do you ever feel you need a bigger dust collector? do you get allot of dut through the shop when doing several handles at once?(or does the vacuum take car of it pretty good?) Do you refill the water pretty often? would somthing like this work with a water system?

Thanks for sharing!

EDIT: Nice Diagram BTW it really made everything Click for some reason

 

[John Wilson]

thanks Daniel.

If I was to do this again I'd get the 2HP dust collector. This one can really only support one 4in inlet to have any effectiveness. Also the collection bag is too porous. When it runs enough fine particles escape the bag's mesh that the shop instantly smells like metal. I work in a respirator but all that super fine dust is still airborne and has to settle somewhere. The 2HP version has an infinitely better bag and way more cfm all around. It's also brushless whereas mine isn't.

Having said all that, the difference between running it or not is night and day. There's simply no comparison. Grinding without the dust collector on has the shop filthy. Wood dust goes absolutely everywhere. With this system I can grind three handles and all I get on the bench is enough fine dust to fill my palm. The shop stays basically clean. Actually clean.

I add water about once a month due to evaporation.

As to running it with a water system, I wouldn't use the bucket water as the cooling water reservoir if that's what you mean. The bucket water is nearly black and the debris in it is contaminated with rust.




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[Frank Niro]

My system in my new shop is much the same as the one John shows. I have a small Dust Deputy cyclone below the grinder that goes to a very strong Ridged vacuum and from there outside My hoses are small at only 1 3/4" but this set up works very well. It is much better than anything I've had in the past and is so good I don't expect to make any further up dates.
Frank

 

[Daniel Rohde]

thanks Daniel.

If I was to do this again I'd get the 2HP dust collector. This one can really only support one 4in inlet to have any effectiveness. Also the collection bag is too porous. When it runs enough fine particles escape the bag's mesh that the shop instantly smells like metal. I work in a respirator but all that super fine dust is still airborne and has to settle somewhere. The 2HP version has an infinitely better bag and way more cfm all around. It's also brushless whereas mine isn't.

Having said all that, the difference between running it or not is night and day. There's simply no comparison. Grinding without the dust collector on has the shop filthy. Wood dust goes absolutely everywhere. With this system I can grind three handles and all I get on the bench is enough fine dust to fill my palm. The shop stays basically clean. Actually clean.

I add water about once a month due to evaporation.

As to running it with a water system, I wouldn't use the bucket water as the cooling water reservoir if that's what you mean. The bucket water is nearly black and the debris in it is contaminated with rust.




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Thanks John!

As to running it with a water system, I wouldn't use the bucket water as the cooling water reservoir if that's what you mean. The bucket water is nearly black and the debris in it is contaminated with rust.

Actually what I meant was how would the vacuum bag and the whole system in general handle having a water system(to keep the blade cool)?

 

[Self Made Knives]

If you're not worried about losing heated/cooled air in the shop, how about just venting it outside? I've been thinking about picking up one of those HF dust collectors and just piping it through the wall. I wonder if you'd even need the water trap at all if going directly outside? Or, maybe put the trap outside.

 

[John Wilson]

If you're not worried about losing heated/cooled air in the shop, how about just venting it outside? I've been thinking about picking up one of those HF dust collectors and just piping it through the wall. I wonder if you'd even need the water trap at all if going directly outside? Or, maybe put the trap outside.

The reason for the water trap is to quench sparks. Most definitely the biggest value of the water trap is to keep sparks and wood dust from lying together in the bag... Even if you don't have a bag, the sparks and dust collect in the piping. At least the water trap is first in line, so the only piping where you should have a fire hazard is the two feet between the grinder and the water trap. If you don't run a water trap, the entire system including the blower housing is a blind fire hazard in my eyes.

It's just a bonus that it catches most of the grinding debris before it goes to the bag. Interesting thing: I've been using a lot of AEB-L lately. I love AEB-L but it makes tons of hairy grinds that look like dryer lint. This metal lint gathers in bunches and when the sparks lay on it it smolders. (!) As I'm grinding, when I notice I've got the makings of a smoldering ball I scoop water from my quench bucket and dump it down the dust collector funnel to put it out. There is NO WAY I'd ever run a dust collector for a grinder without a water trap, even if it was vented outside. At least if it catches fire under my work bench I'll be aware of it. If it was dry piped to the outside, I'm not sure I'd know before the outside of the house was burning.

I wish I could vent it outside, because I absolutely agree that's the best idea all-around. The air quality would be much better in the shop if the system vented outside. Granted, we all wear respirators (right?) when we grind, but it would be nice to be able to take it off without the air being full of metal you can smell and taste, which is so small it blows through the mesh of the collection bag. That's the very stuff you want a respirator to guard against. I just may cut a hole through the wall and vent outside. My shop is the garage of my house. I need to figure out how to swing it without creating a neighbor issue.

 

[John Wilson]

Thanks John!


Actually what I meant was how would the vacuum bag and the whole system in general handle having a water system(to keep the blade cool)?

I think it would work great. Since my dust collector is drawing off the top of the water trap, I have never ever gotten water in the bag. I'm sure there's been a few drops, but the dust in the bag is bone dry.

I think your idea would be a win/win. The cooling water would get sucked up by the dust collector and would then collect in the water trap. The dust collector keeps the cooling water from making a mess at the grinder, and the cooling water replenishes the water trap. You could always get fancy and plumb a high-level drain from the water trap if you think the cooling water would make it overflow. Right now I use a water bottle to spray the belt when I'm sharpening and the dust collector does a great job of catching the dripping and runoff. (what the belt doesn't sling off all over me, anyway)

 

[Self Made Knives]

Yeah, John, neighbors are one thing I don't have to worry about. My shop is centered on a 9 acre wooded parcel, nobody to tick off. Maybe someday, but for now, my shop isn't heated or cooled so venting outside wouldn't make much difference in my case. I'm thinking about just putting a 90 deg elbow outside over a small pit of gravel.

 

[John Wilson]

That's exactly what I'd do, too.

 

[Daniel Rohde]

I think it would work great. Since my dust collector is drawing off the top of the water trap, I have never ever gotten water in the bag. I'm sure there's been a few drops, but the dust in the bag is bone dry.

I think your idea would be a win/win. The cooling water would get sucked up by the dust collector and would then collect in the water trap. The dust collector keeps the cooling water from making a mess at the grinder, and the cooling water replenishes the water trap. You could always get fancy and plumb a high-level drain from the water trap if you think the cooling water would make it overflow. Right now I use a water bottle to spray the belt when I'm sharpening and the dust collector does a great job of catching the dripping and runoff. (what the belt doesn't sling off all over me, anyway)

Sweet! I thought is might work well! Thanks for the help!

 

[Jimbo670]

Thank you for all the help! I will put it to use.

Have a great New Year!!