Damascus

CDHumiston

CDHumiston

Well-Known Member
Just curious when the big love affair with modern Damascus started?

I see it used a lot on custom knives and they are always making it on Forged in Fire.

I don't care for it personally. Is it superior to other steels or is it just the look that attracts people?
 
Just my quess, but FIF uses damascus in its various forms as a time filler and skill separator. Give a guy a bar of 1095 and say make a blade in 3 hours and its pretty simple. The damascus adds to drama
Strength wise, I'd say the tests demonstrate that when properly done its capable of holding its own.
Personally I love any blade that has character to it. A nice harmon, sam mai or damascus add that character
 
Ok, this seems to be a perfect time to ask perhaps a controversial question.
When I see a blade that has differing steel composition (different alloy) intersecting the blade cutting edge due to a nifty damascus pattern, I wonder about the resulting edge characteristics, ie, hardness, toughness, wear resistance, etc.
Do the alloys used in Damascus blades always use exactly the same heat treating receipe - and result in the same physical characteristics?
 
MTBob said:
Do the alloys used in Damascus blades always use exactly the same heat treating receipe - and result in the same physical characteristics?
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This is one of the negatives to damascus/patttern welded steels. You have to choose/guess as to what is the best HT regime for the combination of steels, and won't be able to maximize the properties of both steels. One of the reasons I use the 1080/1084 and 15N20 combination is that I've heard a couple of Master Smiths say that 15N20 is basically 1080 with extra nickel.
 
MTBob said:
Ok, this seems to be a perfect time to ask perhaps a controversial question.
When I see a blade that has differing steel composition (different alloy) intersecting the blade cutting edge due to a nifty damascus pattern, I wonder about the resulting edge characteristics, ie, hardness, toughness, wear resistance, etc.
Do the alloys used in Damascus blades always use exactly the same heat treating receipe - and result in the same physical characteristics?
Click to expand...
You asked a very intelligent question.

The steels used should have similar/compatible elemental chemistry and heat treating process/expansion & contraction rates. Unfortunately this isn't always given enough consideration by some.

Damascus would be no better than its parent steels. I believe the modern and recent obsession with it is, as mentioned, for aesthetic reasons and for people to express their creativity.

Unfortunately, a problem that is way, WAY too common is that Damascus is seen as or pointed to by many as THE sign of craftsmanship and nothing else matters. Now just about everybody and their brother buys or makes a press and starts making Damascus. Sadly the vast majority couldn't make a decent knife to save their life. I believe this issue has existed for some time but I think 'Forged In Fire' has greatly exacerbated the problem.

Any maker that cares about his reputation and wants to avoid being a flash in the pan or "mediocre" at BEST, should have a really good grasp on fit, finish, clean lines, good proportions and nice grinds before scaling up to Damascus.

I've seen some pretty nice looking Damascus on REALLY crappy knives.
 
I second what JDoyle says. Regarding quality, I think that Damascus in general is not necessarily the best steel for a using knife. It looks good, and I like it, but there are many monosteel blade options that will outperform a 1084/15N20 blade when it comes to wear resistance, toughness, etc. To me anyway, it’s kind of like buying a sports car. Looks cool, fun to use, gets a lot of looks, but in the end, not real “the best” for regular driving. It does definitely show off a makers skill, but if it’s going into a knife all the other fundamentals had better be spot on.
 
Has anyone ever seen a "scholarly" article that investigates the compositions of a variety of "damascus" steels? I've always wondered how much carbon is left in a billet and the relationship between carbon retention and "processing time at high temp" aka "how many high-temp heats"?
 
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While I love the look of Damascus (okay...pattern welded steel...) Years of working as a Toolmaker just won't let me go there from a practicality standpoint. Hard to beat a good mono-steel....

I also wonder what percentage of Damascus makers shouldn't be....I'm bettin' that's a higher percentage than we realize. Jmo of course.... ;)
 
J. Doyle said:
You asked a very intelligent question.

The steels used should have similar/compatible elemental chemistry and heat treating process/expansion & contraction rates. Unfortunately this isn't always given enough consideration by some.

Damascus would be no better than its parent steels. I believe the modern and recent obsession with it is, as mentioned, for aesthetic reasons and for people to express their creativity.

Unfortunately, a problem that is way, WAY too common is that Damascus is seen as or pointed to by many as THE sign of craftsmanship and nothing else matters. Now just about everybody and their brother buys or makes a press and starts making Damascus. Sadly the vast majority couldn't make a decent knife to save their life. I believe this issue has existed for some time but I think 'Forged In Fire' has greatly exacerbated the problem.

Any maker that cares about his reputation and wants to avoid being a flash in the pan or "mediocre" at BEST, should have a really good grasp on fit, finish, clean lines, good proportions and nice grinds before scaling up to Damascus.

I've seen some pretty nice looking Damascus on REALLY crappy knives.
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i have recently been seeing a fair amount of crappy looking very low layer count stuff (as low as three layers?) being sold. Yeah, and a number of the knives had that "rustic" look you speak of. LOL
 
jmforge said:
i have recently been seeing a fair amount of crappy looking very low layer count stuff (as low as three layers?) being sold. Yeah, and a number of the knives had that "rustic" look you speak of. LOL
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I don't mind some low layer stuff. It can be neat if done/used right.

But I know what you mean and generally agree.
 
I did a few intentionally “rustic” knives for a special request. I felt a little uneasy even though I did exactly what the customer wanted. He wanted hammer marks and a little scale. It was a design collaboration of sorts. Not only was he thrilled with the end results but a lot of people went nuts over them.

People like what they like. Every knife isn’t meant to be the pinnacle of peak metallurgical perfection. Sometimes making people happy is a great goal, so long as you do it honestly. A knife cuts things. Does your knife cut things? Is the customer happy? If so, congratulations. You did it.
 
John Wilson said:
I did a few intentionally “rustic” knives for a special request. I felt a little uneasy even though I did exactly what the customer wanted. He wanted hammer marks and a little scale. It was a design collaboration of sorts. Not only was he thrilled with the end results but a lot of people went nuts over them.

People like what they like. Every knife isn’t meant to be the pinnacle of peak metallurgical perfection. Sometimes making people happy is a great goal, so long as you do it honestly. A knife cuts things. Does your knife cut things? Is the customer happy? If so, congratulations. You did it.
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By "rustic" I meant "petrified turd" not "brute de forge." :D I finally did a couple of knives a little white back where I left a bit of forge finish on the ricasso and flats near the spine. But I couldn't just leave it. I soaked the blade in vinegar for a while and then buffed so I have a shiny forge finish if that makes any sense. ;) It's not really shiny, but dark grey and you aren't wondering when part of your "finish" is going to flake off.
 
I think that some people don't belive that you forged a knife unelss you leave some "evidence" in the form of hammer marks or scale, Of course, the problem is that a lot of makers will just hit their blade with a hammer or dies even though it never was in a forge and was done totally by stock removal. If if they really have no shame, they will just leave mill scale on hot rolled bar stock. :p
 
jmforge said:
By "rustic" I meant "petrified turd" not "brute de forge." :D I finally did a couple of knives a little white back where I left a bit of forge finish on the ricasso and flats near the spine. But I couldn't just leave it. I soaked the blade in vinegar for a while and then buffed so I have a shiny forge finish if that makes any sense. ;) It's not really shiny, but dark grey and you aren't wondering when part of your "finish" is going to flake off.
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I did the same thing. I wire brushed it and cleaned all the actual scale off. Then I figured I ruined it so I etched it with ferric to turn it black again, LOL. I spent the first couple of years trying my best to make a perfect knife, only to turn around and fret and struggle over how to make one ugly!
 
billyO said:
Here's one:

Gale - Product Login

go.gale.com go.gale.com
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Hi, @billyO Thanks for trying to track that down. Unfortunately, the link goes to the front page of the library wanting registration. It won't lead to the paper. Appreciate you trying to help, though! Thanks!

If I could pester you a bit more, could you post the author(s) name(s) and a couple searchable words from the title and I'll try to dig it up elsewhere? Thanks! This is an old question for me and one for which I've never seen an answer.
 
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