Couple questions on forge build

Sean Jones

Well-Known Member
A deeper forge can be handy when it comes to heat treating but if you are using it for smithing you can really only work about 4"-5" of your stock at a time. No real sense in heating more than that in forging a blade.

Doug
It will most likely be used mostly for heat treating at first. Though I do want to get more into forging and that's why I thought an all purpose forge that would last a long time would be for the best.
 

EdCaffreyMS

Forum Owner - Moderator
Longevity is always an issue with gas forges. To keep the build economical, many use ceramic fiber blanket..... but if you weld in a forge lined with ceramic fiber.....longevity goes out the window. IF you can keep flux out of it......the longevity is reasonable.

The other side of the coin is castable refractories..... They dramatically increase the costs of a forge build, but are the ultimate in longevity. Personally, I have 3 forges in my shop...... the welding forge is castable...... (it's the build i did a tutorial on here in the forums) http://www.legacystudioproductions.net/knifemakertraining/blog/page/2/

The other two forges are ceramic fiber, and I am VERY cautious to NEVER let anything even remotely like flux in/around them. I know we're throwing a ton of stuff at you concerning forges.....but anything from me is presented with the intent to help you NOT make all the mistakes I did when learning, building/using forges. ;)
 
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Sean Jones

Well-Known Member
Longevity is always an issue with gas forges. To keep the build economical, many use ceramic fiber blanket..... but if you weld in a forge lined with ceramic fiber.....longevity goes out the window. IF you can keep flux out of it......the longevity is reasonable.

The other side of the coin is castable refractories..... They dramatically increase the costs of a forge build, but are the ultimate in longevity. Personally, I have 3 forges in my shop...... the welding forge is castable...... (it's the build i did a tutorial on here in the forums) http://www.legacystudioproductions.net/knifemakertraining/blog/page/2/

The other two forges are ceramic fiber, and I am VERY cautious to NEVER let anything even remotely like flux in/around them. I know we're throwing a ton of stuff at you concerning forges.....but anything from me is presented with the intent to help you NOT make all the mistakes I did when learning, building/using forges. ;)
I appreciate your help Ed. So what about using ceramic fiber blanket and a refractory together? I believe I've seen several forges made that way. Or am I mistaken on what kind of refractory is needed to accomplish that? Here is a photo of what I'm proposing to coat the ceramic blanket with.
This is 3000 degree.
Will this work?

And I appreciate the chance to avoid mistakes. I've made plenty so far as it is. :)

69323
 

Doug Lester

Well-Known Member
I have a forge built of refractory coated ceramic matting like you are thinking of. I have no idea if that refractory cement will stand up to flux. I know products like Mizzou and Kast-O-Lite will.

Doug
 

Sean Jones

Well-Known Member
I have a forge built of refractory coated ceramic matting like you are thinking of. I have no idea if that refractory cement will stand up to flux. I know products like Mizzou and Kast-O-Lite will.

Doug
Thanks Doug. I'm not certain either. I'm planning on putting a fire brick inn the bottom as a floor and then I can coat the brick with something like ITC-100. I think that will work fine.

In reviews on Amazon, where I bought this stuff, several people mentioned using it for a forge. However I have no idea if they understand what they are doing. They could be groping around just like I am. Except I have the help of everyone on this forum! Which is an amazing resource. I'd be totally lost without this site to turn for help.
 

EdCaffreyMS

Forum Owner - Moderator
That product is a different animal then actual castable refractory. That refractory cement is meant for patch type jobs, where small amounts are used like mortar. That being said, I used that very product as a "slurry coat" over Mizzou 3000 castable when I built my last welding forge. I did use 1" kawool next to the exterior wall, and then poured in 2 1/2" of the Mizzou.

It's not a bad compromise to build a forge with ceramic fiber, covered with a "slurry" of that refractory cement....... by "slurry" I mean A VERY LIGHT COAT! Everybody gets their mind caught up in the "more is better" thing, and tries to put the whole container over the ceramic fiber......that's just counter productive. With that stuff, NO MORE then 1\4" covering the wool. It's ONLY meant to hold the ceramic fibers in place, and has very little insulating/reflecting qualities. If you want additional insulating qualities, go with ITC-100 (expensive), or..... http://www.hybridburners.com/new-ordering.html (go to the bottom of the page and look at.....HYB-UV - Infrared reflective coating: I can't tell the difference between it and ITC.....but it's far cheaper. :)
 
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Sean Jones

Well-Known Member
That product is a different animal then actual castable refractory. That refractory cement is meant for patch type jobs, where small amounts are used like mortar. That being said, I used that very product as a "slurry coat" over Mizzou 3000 castable when I built my last welding forge. I did use 1" kawool next to the exterior wall, and then poured in 2 1/2" of the Mizzou.

It's not a bad compromise to build a forge with ceramic fiber, covered with a "slurry" of that refractory cement....... by "slurry" I mean A VERY LIGHT COAT! Everybody gets their mind caught up in the "more is better" thing, and tries to put the whole container over the ceramic fiber......that's just counter productive. With that stuff, NO MORE then 1\4" covering the wool. It's ONLY meant to hold the ceramic fibers in place, and has very little insulating/reflecting qualities. If you want additional insulating qualities, go with ITC-100 (expensive), or..... http://www.hybridburners.com/new-ordering.html (go to the bottom of the page and look at.....HYB-UV - Infrared reflective coating: I can't tell the difference between it and ITC.....but it's for cheaper. :)
Thanks Ed. I thought there was a cheaper alternative to the ITC-100 but couldn't remember what it was.
 
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