Cheap Gift Knife

B

believerjoe

Well-Known Member
I have this 12 year old boy that comes every Sunday at church to show me his latest knife purchase. They are usually the 7 dollar flipper type. I decided to make him one as a surprise and have been tinkering with it for a while. Keeping costs down by using 1084, mild steel, and elk antler from Petco! Yes, I check the antler chews from time to time. I ground the brow tine section down and recolored the whole thing. It was white. I just caught heck in another location because I posted that I quenched 1084 in AAA. The knife was ground to about 80% done and when cleaned up had an auto hamon in the thicker section. It was hard when quenched, but I don’t have a tester. Tough to file, throws major sparks, so I went with it and it’s a gift. Some scrap copper and olive drab micarta to finish it off. I want to be a tester so I can try things no know the result and ignore the peanut gallery comments. They may be right, it maybe could be better, but could it be just fine? Going to sharpen it and put it through a few tests, but it’s basically done except for removing some fine scratches from the antler.
 
That is a beautiful knife, and I suspect that the recipient is going to be smitten once he receives it.
 
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That’s an awesome thing to do! Nice looking knife that the kid will love. You’ve made a friend for life. Nice job!
 
I've been contemplating this thread and reflecting on the headinin particular.
If theOB will bear with me on this, I would like to make this observation:
Normally when a knife is referred to as a "cheap knife", the mental picture of a mass fabricated, poorly made knife which will not last long, springs up in my mind.
It is however my opinion, that in the case of this knife, a matter of materials that was fairly cheaply obtained by the maker, but the craftsmanship in this case, is excellent. The knife is well built and will last a lifetime, I believe. I suspect that all the commentators on this thread has similar thought, but I wanted to express this in writing.
 
believerjoe said:
Everyone says 10XX steels in fast oil. I’m ignoring it and doing it again. Lol. Hoping for another auto hamon.
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No you misunderstood me. What do YOU normally quench 1084 in? Or have you not used 1084 before?

There are perfectly valid reasons that 10XX steels are recommended with fast oil.

Making a one-off gift for someone using what you have on hand is one thing. Ignoring sound wisdom and proven practice repeatedly "just because" might be another and doesn't make much sense to me. But to each, their own.
 
Johan Nel said:
I've been contemplating this thread and reflecting on the headinin particular.
If theOB will bear with me on this, I would like to make this observation:
Normally when a knife is referred to as a "cheap knife", the mental picture of a mass fabricated, poorly made knife which will not last long, springs up in my mind.
It is however my opinion, that in the case of this knife, a matter of materials that was fairly cheaply obtained by the maker, but the craftsmanship in this case, is excellent. The knife is well built and will last a lifetime, I believe. I suspect that all the commentators on this thread has similar thought, but I wanted to express this in
Click to expand...
Johan Nel said:
I've been contemplating this thread and reflecting on the headinin particular.
If theOB will bear with me on this, I would like to make this observation:
Normally when a knife is referred to as a "cheap knife", the mental picture of a mass fabricated, poorly made knife which will not last long, springs up in my mind.
It is however my opinion, that in the case of this knife, a matter of materials that was fairly cheaply obtained by the maker, but the craftsmanship in this case, is excellent. The knife is well built and will last a lifetime, I believe. I suspect that all the commentators on this thread has similar thought, but I wanted to express this in writing.
Click to expand...
That was not my intent. Cheap just meant that the components did not add up to much. I had been making a few with Damascus and ivory, so the starting point was totally different. That was all in my head when typing it up. I spent good time on it and tried some new things.
 
believerjoe said:
That was not my intent. Cheap just meant that the components did not add up to much. I had been making a few with Damascus and ivory, so the starting point was totally different. That was all in my head when typing it up. I spent good time on it and tried some new things.
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I concur. It is not my intent to critisize, but to commend a job well done.
 
J. Doyle said:
No you misunderstood me. What do YOU normally quench 1084 in? Or have you not used 1084 before?

There are perfectly valid reasons that 10XX steels are recommended with fast oil.

Making a one-off gift for someone using what you have on hand is one thing. Ignoring sound wisdom and proven practice repeatedly "just because" might be another and doesn't make much sense to me. But to each, their own.
Click to expand...
Well, I had never used it solely before, but had bought a couple bars. I was working on another knife and decided to make this one along with it. When it came time to quench, the other knife needed the slower oil and I never stopped to think about it, so I quenched in slower oil. I always check with a file to see if it hardened and it skated. I posted somewhere else when the auto hamon showed up asking if normal. Rather than INFORM me that a possible mistake was made, it became more or less some violent knife maker know it all session. I went back and started to research more after that so that I could learn. There is tons of info in both directions like most things knife making that indicates there is no clear correct answer. Been through it over and over with multiple aspects. Hard to ever say if sound advice or just opinions or even just wrong answers. I found that reading up on it indicates that thinner stock does just fine in slower oil, but thicker not as much. So people do make knives this way because of that. You will even find docs telling you that 1084 is good with any oil, but know as in all cases that results may vary. I went back and tried to file the underside of the ricasso down towards the blade, and it was difficult. I put an edge on it and cut some scrap wood, destroyed some boxes, and then sliced some paper. I surmised that it would be fine for a knife for a 12 year old, or anyone. Since it worked, I had another piece if 1084 and was going to test the theory on whether it happens again and take it to another knifemakers shop for hardness testing. Just like your question, I didn’t put all that in there, because it was too long to type and I had no motive. I have generally found this forum to be decent and others not so much. This is a hobby and something I do for fun, but I research and learn and adapt with what happens in my experiments and trials. Pretty sure this place also lists 1084 as a slow oil quench. I have actually stopped making random question posts and just going on my own journey of trial and error. So far on this, I have no major error, but could I be wrong- YES! I will try again and find out. I think that is the beauty in the art.
 
Johan Nel said:
I concur. It is not my intent to critisize, but to commend a job well done.
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You can criticize and I still don’t mind! Lol. It has its issues. I use some to test new things and methods. There are successes ands failures in there. I learned that I can retexture elk and it will color like Sambar. I learned that I can superglue parts together and guarantee filing consistency by filing parts together. Those are not bevels on individual parts, but an angle file (3 sided file) working them together. Easy way to add some consistency. I free hand everything so far and I couldn’t get things to match up, and I hate just making things flush. With the slightest movement of the pieces, a little line develops and you can feel it. A big gap is hard to feel and avoids it. I find that odd, but works. Also adding the most minor details makes things look better. It was ok before, but I added the copper to make it pop. Or pop to me, I should say. Took another hour, but no deadline to meet. There are also some things you can’t see. I had trouble curving the tang to match the curved antler, and somehow got it a little close at the opening where the tang slides into the antler. I ground the antler back a little to make sure the antler was thicker there. Antler is strong and may have not been needed, but I felt better about it. Each one is an adventure!
 
believerjoe said:
Well, I had never used it solely before, but had bought a couple bars. I was working on another knife and decided to make this one along with it. When it came time to quench, the other knife needed the slower oil and I never stopped to think about it, so I quenched in slower oil. I always check with a file to see if it hardened and it skated. I posted somewhere else when the auto hamon showed up asking if normal. Rather than INFORM me that a possible mistake was made, it became more or less some violent knife maker know it all session. I went back and started to research more after that so that I could learn. There is tons of info in both directions like most things knife making that indicates there is no clear correct answer. Been through it over and over with multiple aspects. Hard to ever say if sound advice or just opinions or even just wrong answers. I found that reading up on it indicates that thinner stock does just fine in slower oil, but thicker not as much. So people do make knives this way because of that. You will even find docs telling you that 1084 is good with any oil, but know as in all cases that results may vary. I went back and tried to file the underside of the ricasso down towards the blade, and it was difficult. I put an edge on it and cut some scrap wood, destroyed some boxes, and then sliced some paper. I surmised that it would be fine for a knife for a 12 year old, or anyone. Since it worked, I had another piece if 1084 and was going to test the theory on whether it happens again and take it to another knifemakers shop for hardness testing. Just like your question, I didn’t put all that in there, because it was too long to type and I had no motive. I have generally found this forum to be decent and others not so much. This is a hobby and something I do for fun, but I research and learn and adapt with what happens in my experiments and trials. Pretty sure this place also lists 1084 as a slow oil quench. I have actually stopped making random question posts and just going on my own journey of trial and error. So far on this, I have no major error, but could I be wrong- YES! I will try again and find out. I think that is the beauty in the art.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the post. Hopefully I didn't seem like I was attacking you....not my intent.

Many things in knifemaking are subjective. And some things are right and wrong.

Steel types and what they should be quenched in for optimal results are things with proven scientific results and really aren't open to interpretation or opinion.

Again, one time, using whatever you have on hand is one thing. If you were going to pursue a different steel that was best suited to a different oil, I would either buy proper oil or use steel suited to the oil I had.

Our goal should be to make the best knife possible with our chosen steel, tools and equipment. We all should want to be taken seriously if we plan to make knives consistently. There's no point in intentionally leaving performance on the table just to prove a point or soothe a grudge.

While I may agree with the sentiment that 1084 is best suited to a fast oil, maybe it was presented to you in a poor fashion.
 
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