Mark Barone
Well-Known Member
Can anybody recommend a website builder?
Can anybody recommend a website builder?
- Thread starter Mark Barone
- Start date
tkroenlein
Well-Known Member
Those Dominion folks are supposed to be good.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Are you looking for a web hosting service that includes a website builder, or a website building software to build your own..... or a 3rd party to build/maintain a site for you?
Personally, I used WYSIWYG 15 website builder to build my site, I have it hosted with Atlanta Virtual, and I do all the work/updating myself.
Personally, I used WYSIWYG 15 website builder to build my site, I have it hosted with Atlanta Virtual, and I do all the work/updating myself.
Mark Barone
Well-Known Member
Yes a third party.
I’ll check that out . Thanks Ed
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Alden Cole
Well-Known Member
I used WIX to build my website for free. It wasn't that hard for me, (it took some time to set up, but I'm ok with that) and I'm sure most people can figure it out. However, it is pretty much impossible to access via the internet unless you have the link (which I have on my FB page). If you pay for their plan, I think you get your own domain name and if someone searches for your knives I'm sure they'd find you. You could build the free one yourself and then if you ever wanted to switch to a different company or buy the plan you could do that with no money down the drain. Just a thought.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
I'll give you a lesson I learned..... my first website was built by a 3rd party, who was also being paid to "maintain" the site. It was expensive, and the yahoo would not do the job he was being paid for. At that time, emails attachments were limited to less then 1Mb....which meant pictures had to be loaded onto a CD or thumb drive.....then mailed. Long story short, it took weeks for me to get a new knife/product up on the site. Even today, most who build/maintain websites will only update them on a given schedule. Something such as "every other Tuesday"..... or "once a month". I don't know about you....but when I finish up a knife that I've spent 100+ hours building, the last thing I wanna do is wait for a month to present to the public.
I got so frustrated and angry with having to rely on someone else, I started teaching myself web design/building. It took several months before I actually built a site myself, and several more to "tune" things and get an understanding of how it all worked. The website, the hosting service, using FTP to move file to and from the host server, etc. etc. Somewhat of a long learning curve, but well worth it to me.
The problem I had, and still see, when individuals such as knifemakers, and/or craftsmen have an outside entity build a website is..... those outside entities build a website based on 3 things...SELL! SELL! SELL!, and basically make a knifemaker look like a used car salesman. It very easy to spot when you wander around the net, looking up the websites of various knifemakers.
These days, many folks don't even have a website.....they exist off platforms such as Facebook (even though "weapons" sales are prohibited), Instagram, and a couple of others. I guess what I am saying is....based on my experiences, a website dedicated to knifemaking, or pretty much any other crafts type product, needs to be as much about promoting, and learning the craft, as it is about selling the product(s) or the craft.
When it comes to custom knives, it's all about a maker's reputation. A good one can take decades to build.....and only seconds to destroy, which is why most of use guard that reputation very jealously. I've seen makers that were capable of producing some of the finest custom knives on the planet..... but because they chose shortcuts in their business practices, and because they chose to allow their egos, and mightier then thou attitudes to take over, they couldn't give their knives away.....and consequently, are no longer knifemakers. Why say all that? Because to many, a website is the only thing they have to form an opinion of you...... and if that's so, do you really want someone who doesn't even know you, representing/presenting who you are to the public?? Just some food for thought.
I suppose for me, it's that I simply do not trust anyone else to represent me, or my work, as I would represent it, and myself. In my view, when you have someone else build and maintain a website, or anything else that reflects on you, they don't give a rip about the non-tangibles.... they are pretty much gona do whatever they want, once you sign the contract, and the check. That's just advice coming from someone who has been there.
I got so frustrated and angry with having to rely on someone else, I started teaching myself web design/building. It took several months before I actually built a site myself, and several more to "tune" things and get an understanding of how it all worked. The website, the hosting service, using FTP to move file to and from the host server, etc. etc. Somewhat of a long learning curve, but well worth it to me.
The problem I had, and still see, when individuals such as knifemakers, and/or craftsmen have an outside entity build a website is..... those outside entities build a website based on 3 things...SELL! SELL! SELL!, and basically make a knifemaker look like a used car salesman. It very easy to spot when you wander around the net, looking up the websites of various knifemakers.
These days, many folks don't even have a website.....they exist off platforms such as Facebook (even though "weapons" sales are prohibited), Instagram, and a couple of others. I guess what I am saying is....based on my experiences, a website dedicated to knifemaking, or pretty much any other crafts type product, needs to be as much about promoting, and learning the craft, as it is about selling the product(s) or the craft.
When it comes to custom knives, it's all about a maker's reputation. A good one can take decades to build.....and only seconds to destroy, which is why most of use guard that reputation very jealously. I've seen makers that were capable of producing some of the finest custom knives on the planet..... but because they chose shortcuts in their business practices, and because they chose to allow their egos, and mightier then thou attitudes to take over, they couldn't give their knives away.....and consequently, are no longer knifemakers. Why say all that? Because to many, a website is the only thing they have to form an opinion of you...... and if that's so, do you really want someone who doesn't even know you, representing/presenting who you are to the public?? Just some food for thought.
I suppose for me, it's that I simply do not trust anyone else to represent me, or my work, as I would represent it, and myself. In my view, when you have someone else build and maintain a website, or anything else that reflects on you, they don't give a rip about the non-tangibles.... they are pretty much gona do whatever they want, once you sign the contract, and the check. That's just advice coming from someone who has been there.
Sean Jones
Well-Known Member
It depends on what your comfort level is with technology and a lot of other factors. Ed does has some good points. You do have more control when you built it from scratch like he has. However it also depends on what you want. Your needs may not be the same needs that Ed has. I'm not knocking Ed or his website. It's a great website and you should visit it and others to get ideas before you decide what direction you want your website to go and to grow.
If you choose to go the do it yourself route you can use applications like Wix, which is currently the most popular Website builder. However there are several others such as Squarebase, Network Solutions and WordPress. I personally have been using WordPress for a while now and if you are technically savvy it is what I would recommend.
If you decide to hand the reigns over to someone else and let them build it for you, be prepared to either spend a lot of money or get a site that may or may not suit your needs. From that point of view I'm with Ed. But I'm a very technical guy and I believe Ed is as well.
If not, you can learn as you go. Building your own website can be a lot of fun. With many website applications you will have templates you can build from. And most will walk you through it step by step.
Be forewarned though that there are many 'addons' with a lot of these applications that will bleed your bank account dry if you let them. I stick with mostly the free add-ons, but depending on your needs there may be some add-ons that you might want to buy.
In any event keep it simple and ask a lot of questions.
If you choose to go the do it yourself route you can use applications like Wix, which is currently the most popular Website builder. However there are several others such as Squarebase, Network Solutions and WordPress. I personally have been using WordPress for a while now and if you are technically savvy it is what I would recommend.
If you decide to hand the reigns over to someone else and let them build it for you, be prepared to either spend a lot of money or get a site that may or may not suit your needs. From that point of view I'm with Ed. But I'm a very technical guy and I believe Ed is as well.
If not, you can learn as you go. Building your own website can be a lot of fun. With many website applications you will have templates you can build from. And most will walk you through it step by step.
Be forewarned though that there are many 'addons' with a lot of these applications that will bleed your bank account dry if you let them. I stick with mostly the free add-ons, but depending on your needs there may be some add-ons that you might want to buy.
In any event keep it simple and ask a lot of questions.
A custom site is expensive. Yet, programs like WordPress fulfill the need for a net presence very nicely...example of a wordpress: https://www.versoarms.com
I'm not familiar with others that Sean Jones spoke of, I'm sure they're fine - all depends on your tech level comfort.
Finding a hosting company isn't too hard - costs should run ya around $35.00 for hosting. Sites with a need for a store is a whole other animal - there are "stores" where you post a pic and the customer reaches out to you via e-mail like on versoarms.com and then there are custom stores hosted on AWS (amazon web services) that will take your inventory, box it, ship it, and mail you a check, all you have to do is produce - around $2,500.00.
I'm not familiar with others that Sean Jones spoke of, I'm sure they're fine - all depends on your tech level comfort.
Finding a hosting company isn't too hard - costs should run ya around $35.00 for hosting. Sites with a need for a store is a whole other animal - there are "stores" where you post a pic and the customer reaches out to you via e-mail like on versoarms.com and then there are custom stores hosted on AWS (amazon web services) that will take your inventory, box it, ship it, and mail you a check, all you have to do is produce - around $2,500.00.
Brad Walker
Well-Known Member
I use squarespace for mine. They have lots of tutorials to help get it set up. I'm very happy with it.
billyO
Well-Known Member
From my limited experience, if you're not technically savvy, then Wordpress is a nightmare....
Alden Cole
Well-Known Member
My brother used to run a website using wordpress. I think back then he was paying about $40 per month or year, (in my defense here I was a lot younger and didn't understand much). It didn't seem like he had a hard time using it.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Personally, I'm not much on WordPress, but my son Tim, built and runs KMT (KnifeMakerTraining) with it, but he has literally been using it since he was a teen (he's now in his 30s). I often get frustrated with "open source" software, simply because it is ever evolving, and if you don't spend significant time keeping up with those changes, it can bite you.
Even the WYSIWYG website builder that I listed previously has a learning curve.... but it is a software that I purchased, I own, and I am not forced to update to the latest version unless I want to. That being said, one thing that I think is absolutely imperative (and something that WYSIWYG website builder offers) is that any website be "responsive design".... meaning that the website automatically adjusts itself to the screen size being used by the viewer....whether that be a PC monitor, a mobile phone, or any size of tablet. My site actually keeps track of the hits based on devices, and as of just now..... 80% of the "hits" on my homepage have been from mobile devices this month.
In today's hurry up world, nobody is willing to wait to view a website on a PC.... and many don't even own PCs anymore....so if you website doesn't adjust to the screen size a potential client is using..... they don't bother with it, and just move onto the next one.
Even the WYSIWYG website builder that I listed previously has a learning curve.... but it is a software that I purchased, I own, and I am not forced to update to the latest version unless I want to. That being said, one thing that I think is absolutely imperative (and something that WYSIWYG website builder offers) is that any website be "responsive design".... meaning that the website automatically adjusts itself to the screen size being used by the viewer....whether that be a PC monitor, a mobile phone, or any size of tablet. My site actually keeps track of the hits based on devices, and as of just now..... 80% of the "hits" on my homepage have been from mobile devices this month.
In today's hurry up world, nobody is willing to wait to view a website on a PC.... and many don't even own PCs anymore....so if you website doesn't adjust to the screen size a potential client is using..... they don't bother with it, and just move onto the next one.
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chrisstaniar
Well-Known Member
Another vote for Wordpress. It's free software and there are lots of useful free plugins to let you do lots useful stuff - galleries, shopping carts, social media, automated backups, etc.
They maintain the software very well as far as security updates, etc. With the continuously evolving "threats" it is a good thing that it is updated frequently. Updating isn't hard, you just click a button that says "update".
It's also pretty intuitive to use, though I'm an IT guy so tech is second nature to me.
They maintain the software very well as far as security updates, etc. With the continuously evolving "threats" it is a good thing that it is updated frequently. Updating isn't hard, you just click a button that says "update".
It's also pretty intuitive to use, though I'm an IT guy so tech is second nature to me.
Argh. Platform debates - it always depends on one's comfort level. Getting back to Mr. Barone's request - Wordpress (WP) has important advantages that Mr. Chrisstainiar mentioned that are valuable (software/security updates). It may not be the "one" for you, it is but one of many open source web site products available. Take a look at the other ones too - whichever seems the easiest to make work for you will be the best. As your tech skills improve so will your ability to make your site look and behave better. It's a learning curve...just like learning to make a knife.
Getting your site together is one battle...wait till ya find out what it takes to get it "out there" promote it...hahaha Social Media - it's a time bitch. I agree with Ed - responsiveness is important. My phone is not attached to my hand, but that just proves I'm older.
Getting your site together is one battle...wait till ya find out what it takes to get it "out there" promote it...hahaha Social Media - it's a time bitch. I agree with Ed - responsiveness is important. My phone is not attached to my hand, but that just proves I'm older.
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Kevin R. Cashen
Super Moderator
I am currently building a new website for the ABS using the Wordpress format, I have been using Wordpress for many years now and thought I understood it, but a project as large as the ABS site has been a serious education. Here is what I have found-
You can do just about anything with this “free” software as it is all about Plugins. Building a website with WP is very much like solving a puzzle. If there is a specific function you want for your site, you need to get creative with your search of the many thousands of Plugins to find one that can be used for your needs, and there is a Plugin for everything under the sun. Now, about that “free” part… Yes, the Wordpress framework software is free, in much the same way a heroin pusher will always be eager to give free product to a potential customer. Nothing in this world is really totally free and what Wordpress is is a platform to sell premium Plugins and upgrades.
Ed is correct that there will be updates just about every week for the software and plugins, which is VERY annoying. But the flipside of this is closed source software that somebody else codes for you and owns- you can be at their mercy. A website like this needs to be maintained by somebody who understands the newest php, html, or css coding or it will slowly decay losing function, after function, as the browsers refuse to recognize the obsolete code- can you say “Abobe Flash!” If your website was built on a server running an old php version it is no longer working well with the current browsers and if you update the server php your website will crash.
If you want to build a basic website with a couple of pages to have an internet presence, Wordpress will absolutely do that with the free site builder and free Plugins. But if you want something more elaborate Wordpress will become a bit more complicated and actually addictive. As you begin to see all the possibilities of the Plugins that are offered, you will feel empowered and excited as you watch your project grow. But then you will try to make it all work in an efficient and professional manner, only to find that those free Plugins are always missing a key function that is necessary for your grand plan, keeping you at just a basic website until you start spending money. All that being said, WP can build a incredibly powerful website very cheaply, even with paying for some premium features.
A clear advantage of Wordpress is its ubiquitous nature. If you want to be up and running in a day, just buy server space from a place like GoDaddy, Hostgator, Bluehost etc. You will be given a CPanel login that will get you to your server control panel. Wordpress is so recognized that in the control panel you will see a Wordpress installer. Depending on the version of the installer you may need to set up a database, but you can Google how to do that in about 30 seconds. Newer WP installers can do it for you. Click on the Wordpress installer and simply provide the information when prompted, and in about ten minutes you will have a Wordpress website ready for your content. After you fill it with your content, you simply need to purchase a domain name “www.yoursitename.whatever” and point it to your home page. You now have a website that you are in total control of. To add your content, the Wordpress page dashboard is a bit like writing a document in MS Word, you can type, cut and paste, and upload images with ease.
One other slight negative about Wordpress is that it was originally built for blogging, so you need to rework it slightly toward actual pages, instead of “posts”, but that is a simple matter of assigning a homepage instead of a news feed. After that the Plugin game will begin...
For every Plugin there are ten more Plugins, or “addons” to the Plugin, which is actually just a Plugin. There are Plugins to fix other Plugins, and when you get too many Plugins, there are Plugins to reduce your Plugins. Free Plugins will often not work, but if you buy the premium version of that Plugin you will then be able to ask the people who made the Plugin how to fix their Plugin. Eventually running too many Plugins can cause things to get buggy, but don’t worry there are plenty of debugging Plugins!
Are you starting to get the picture about Plugins?
I guess I have to say that I have a true love-hate relationship with Wordpress.
You can do just about anything with this “free” software as it is all about Plugins. Building a website with WP is very much like solving a puzzle. If there is a specific function you want for your site, you need to get creative with your search of the many thousands of Plugins to find one that can be used for your needs, and there is a Plugin for everything under the sun. Now, about that “free” part… Yes, the Wordpress framework software is free, in much the same way a heroin pusher will always be eager to give free product to a potential customer. Nothing in this world is really totally free and what Wordpress is is a platform to sell premium Plugins and upgrades.
Ed is correct that there will be updates just about every week for the software and plugins, which is VERY annoying. But the flipside of this is closed source software that somebody else codes for you and owns- you can be at their mercy. A website like this needs to be maintained by somebody who understands the newest php, html, or css coding or it will slowly decay losing function, after function, as the browsers refuse to recognize the obsolete code- can you say “Abobe Flash!” If your website was built on a server running an old php version it is no longer working well with the current browsers and if you update the server php your website will crash.
If you want to build a basic website with a couple of pages to have an internet presence, Wordpress will absolutely do that with the free site builder and free Plugins. But if you want something more elaborate Wordpress will become a bit more complicated and actually addictive. As you begin to see all the possibilities of the Plugins that are offered, you will feel empowered and excited as you watch your project grow. But then you will try to make it all work in an efficient and professional manner, only to find that those free Plugins are always missing a key function that is necessary for your grand plan, keeping you at just a basic website until you start spending money. All that being said, WP can build a incredibly powerful website very cheaply, even with paying for some premium features.
A clear advantage of Wordpress is its ubiquitous nature. If you want to be up and running in a day, just buy server space from a place like GoDaddy, Hostgator, Bluehost etc. You will be given a CPanel login that will get you to your server control panel. Wordpress is so recognized that in the control panel you will see a Wordpress installer. Depending on the version of the installer you may need to set up a database, but you can Google how to do that in about 30 seconds. Newer WP installers can do it for you. Click on the Wordpress installer and simply provide the information when prompted, and in about ten minutes you will have a Wordpress website ready for your content. After you fill it with your content, you simply need to purchase a domain name “www.yoursitename.whatever” and point it to your home page. You now have a website that you are in total control of. To add your content, the Wordpress page dashboard is a bit like writing a document in MS Word, you can type, cut and paste, and upload images with ease.
One other slight negative about Wordpress is that it was originally built for blogging, so you need to rework it slightly toward actual pages, instead of “posts”, but that is a simple matter of assigning a homepage instead of a news feed. After that the Plugin game will begin...
For every Plugin there are ten more Plugins, or “addons” to the Plugin, which is actually just a Plugin. There are Plugins to fix other Plugins, and when you get too many Plugins, there are Plugins to reduce your Plugins. Free Plugins will often not work, but if you buy the premium version of that Plugin you will then be able to ask the people who made the Plugin how to fix their Plugin. Eventually running too many Plugins can cause things to get buggy, but don’t worry there are plenty of debugging Plugins!
Are you starting to get the picture about Plugins?
I guess I have to say that I have a true love-hate relationship with Wordpress.
Sean Jones
Well-Known Member
Kevin you are spot on about the plug-ins. I've only been using WordPress for a couple years now and it is definitely a plug-in game. However it beats doing a website totally from scratch. Which I haven't done in a long time and hopefully never have to again.
Sean Jones
Well-Known Member
Mark I hope all of this geek talk hasn't bewildered you or discouraged you. If you wouldn't mind telling us your comfort level with all of this it would be helpful in guiding you in the right direction. It can be a lot to digest.
Kevin R. Cashen
Super Moderator
For sure. Years ago I wanted to do my own website so I taught myself HTML, it wasn't that bad, to me it seemed to be where the old "basic" programming language went to. But then I took a few years off and along came CSS, Java script, and php...
. I was lost! Heck HTML even changed so much that it was unrecognizable. But the biggest thing to kill my independence was the need for responsive websites. I came from a world where you only had to code your page to fit the average monitor screen, now you had to know how to build it to adjust to any number of screens and still be useable. Rather than reschooIing myself every six months I said the heck with it and went Wordpress. It is still very handy to know a little php coding if you want to customize, and then you can actually cut down on the Plugins with code snippets, but, of course, you need the Code Snippet Plugin to do that.I am, however a firm believer in a proper website, and not just because I despise social media. I will always have large numbers of people who will disagree with this, but I remain firm that if you want to look professional social media is like a billboard on a massive highway, which tells people about your actual home/store, and where to find it. Your website is your showroom where you don't have to compete with cats playing pianos or videos of somebody's drunk uncle taking a groin shot, a place where you may have their undivided attention for at least 30 seconds.
When I look for a business on the internet, it does not bode well for them if all they have is a Facebook page, it just gives off a real unprofessional vibe to me. I would be much better with it if folks would at least fill out a Facebook page with information to find them or contact them without being one of their "Friends." I may not be hip that all the newest social media trends, but that is just business 101.
Mark Barone
Well-Known Member
Sean I appreciate your thoughts. No not at all. I read all posts several times and was going to respond .
So my needs are this. I don’t really have a need. This is still more hobby related and I wanted a website to document a gallery and provide a place to sell maybe 1-2 month as I make them. Ed was correct, I really don’t want a site that just looks like a list of products sale. I want the site to showcase a few knives that I have “mastered” in the 3 fs, and build from there. and yes Sean I want to build it myself because I will enjoy the process. I am also concentrating on creating photos that also accurately represent the knives. And I dont just want A Facebook page like Kevin mentioned. It’s hard to showcase things properly, but social media will need to be a route to the website. I think I am finding my strengths and limits as a knife maker. I am also accepting them. Knife making is really the first passion that I have had that has been sticking. I think it comes from my past meat cutting years and need to bleed on a regular basis. It’s been 3 years and I still think about my next knife. I don’t need to make a living With sales, I just need an outlet to get rid of one so I can make another.
Sean Jones
Well-Known Member
Mark I think you might like WordPress then. Though there are certainly other avenues and not one size fits all. I was an IT Professional for a number of years and maintained several websites, but the only ones I've ever built from scratch have been for personal purposes. I say this so you have an idea of where I'm coming from. It's a learning curve for everyone. But WordPress gives you options with a minimal learning curve. At least at first. As Kevin mentioned you can get a basic website up and running in a very short time, and then go from there. Going deeper down the rabbit hole as you go.