Burgmaster

Here's a link to a site with PDF manuals of Burgmaster presses. I don't know if this particular one is for your unit or not. You might want to poke around the site and see what they have.

Nice machine!
 
Thanks Sean. What I was mostly looking for was maintenance info which I found. The manual wasn't for my model but close.
J. Doyle said:
you can pretty well buy 5 or 6 decent new drill presses
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I paid about the price of one. And I already have two floor drill presses. But I will try it to see if it's a good fit for my shop.
 
Jesse Latham said:
Thanks Sean. What I was mostly looking for was maintenance info which I found. The manual wasn't for my model but close.

I paid about the price of one. And I already have two floor drill presses. But I will try it to see if it's a good fit for my shop.
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Oh dont get me wrong, they're cool and well built and I'd take one if the price was right.
 
Got here too late.... I have one in use full time, and 3 others as parts machines. There's only ONE place in the world to buy parts, and the fella knows it too! :)

That being said, as they came from the factory, each spindle has a different speed, some far too high for metal working. (these machines were origonally built for drilling circuit boards before CNC came along) I used parts/gear sets from my parts machines to slow down the spindles on my use machine.
What I like so much about the Burgmasters is that they are SQUARE, have zero flex, and as long as the turret is "in time", they drill super true holes...... and then there's the fact that you can load a drill, reamer, etc in successive spindles and never have to spend all the time changing out bits/tooling. I love mine for just about anything knifemaking related, but they really shine when working on folder parts/folders. It's not uncommon for me to counterbore folder bearing pockets with mine.....it's as accurate as my benchtop milling machine.

Great find!!
 
I did..... changed out the high speed spindles, making them slower. I'd have to look up the exact RPMs in my notes, but on my machines, spindles 1,4 and 6 are the "high speed" spindles, and 2, 3 and 5 are the slow ones. I pulled the 1, 3 and 5 spindles and gearsets out of on turret, and replaced the high speeds in the machine I use.

The most important thing I have learned with these machines is to make sure the detent, that rotates the turret, is set correctly and you REMEMBER IT'S THERE, AND HOW IT WORKS! Before I got the Burgmaster in service, I was in the bad habit of letting my hand "ride" the down feed lever on drill presses, particularly on the spindle's way up. You do that with a Burgmaster, and the turret will rotate at the wrong/worst times, breaking bits, tearing up parts, and mangling hands. :)

Also never let the lube level in the turret fall below the "full" line on the sight glass. The manual calls for SAE30 lube in the turret, but after talking to the "Parts Guy", he told me to use a synthetic gear lube if the machine had any wear and/or leaks, which mine does.
I have slight leaks on numbers 2 & 5 whenever either is in it's use position. At one time I called to inquire on spindle seals, and about choked when he quoted me $78 EACH! o_O I pulled the seal and went to NAPA. They found a substitute, for a whopping $1.78 each. I purchased 10, just to have on hand. That's been at least 5 years ago, but at least they are in the shop, just in case. So, I guess I should rephrase what I said earlier about getting parts..... IF you have a good parts store around, you MIGHT be able to pull a part and try to have them match it up to something that is available, but unfortunately, most of the Burgmaster parts are just that....Burgmaster.

Here's a suggestion, that I have implemented on most of the machines in my shop....put the burmaster on a momentary foot switch, that way if something does go wrong, all you have to do is step back, and everything stops! It's saved me several times....when I had a moment of doing something dumb. ;)

It's a shame that Burgmaster went out of business, they are a wonderful machine, built with superior quality that we just don't see anymore, and the OB model just the ticket for any small shop.
 
J. Doyle said:
They turn up for sale fairly often, especially on Ebay. But for the price, if you have the space, you can pretty well buy 5 or 6 decent new drill presses. That's what I did. I have about 8 drill presses in a line on my bench now.
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yeah I went and looked at one off ebay not long ago and all the spindles where incredibly loose. Hadn’t found anymore close enough to warrant a trip. I mainly wanted one for super accurate holes because I want to get into folders at some point not as concerned with the multiple chucks. I’ve had several drill presses and it seems like no matter what they have a lot of runout. Even bought a decent chuck for one and it still has to much runout. I probably just need to invest in a mill.
 
Daniel Macina said:
yeah I went and looked at one off ebay not long ago and all the spindles where incredibly loose. Hadn’t found anymore close enough to warrant a trip. I mainly wanted one for super accurate holes because I want to get into folders at some point not as concerned with the multiple chucks. I’ve had several drill presses and it seems like no matter what they have a lot of runout. Even bought a decent chuck for one and it still has to much runout. I probably just need to invest in a mill.
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I use exclusively my drill presses for folders. I've never once used my mill for drilling holes on a folder. I use my mill for folders but honestly, if I had to scrap any one tool for folders, it would be the mill. I could very easily do without it for folders if I had to.

Honestly, I think making folders sometimes gets misrepresented as needing to be a NASA machinist to complete one. And I say that cautiously because anyone that knows me or has been to my shop knows I'm EXTREMELY careful/ picky about precision and fit/finish. But the reality is just about any big box tool store drill press will probably be fine unless you got a real dud.

I personally think there are much more important things to worry about than quill runout or even spindle slop, within reason.

If your table is square, flat and perpendicular with your spindle and you use short screw-machine length drill bits and you raise your table as close as you can to your work so that you're limiting the runout of your quill anyway, then probably you or anyone else won't notice any bit of lack of precision.
 
J. Doyle said:
I use exclusively my drill presses for folders. I've never once used my mill for drilling holes on a folder. I use my mill for folders but honestly, if I had to scrap any one tool for folders, it would be the mill. I could very easily do without it for folders if I had to.

Honestly, I think making folders sometimes gets misrepresented as needing to be a NASA machinist to complete one. And I say that cautiously because anyone that knows me or has been to my shop knows I'm EXTREMELY careful/ picky about precision and fit/finish. But the reality is just about any big box tool store drill press will probably be fine unless you got a real dud.

I personally think there are much more important things to worry about than quill runout or even spindle slop, within reason.

If your table is square, flat and perpendicular with your spindle and you use short screw-machine length drill bits and you raise your table as close as you can to your work so that you're limiting the runout of your quill anyway, then probably you or anyone else won't notice any bit of lack of precision.
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thank you. Once I get my fixed blades to a point I’m comfortable with fit and finish wise maybe I’ll give a folder a go.
 
I agree that folders are not really all the difficult, provided you train yourself to think in fractions of a thousandths, rather then fractions of an inch, which is generally how most do when building straight knives..... maybe not literally for all, but that's how I illustrate the point when I try to explain what I consider, the required mindset.

There's no doubt that a person can achieve acceptable results with any drill press, but it requires a lot of trial and error to learn the shortcomings of each particular drill press, and how to compensate to achieve your desired results. The key is being what John said....
EXTREMELY careful/ picky about precision and fit/finish
Click to expand...
That plays right into what I said about the proper mindset.

The best example I can offer is counterboring for caged bearings in a folder..... if the bottom of the counter bore is more than .0015" out of flat, the action will get stiffer and lighter as the blade travels through it's range of motion, if it happens on both counterbores, for me that action becomes unacceptable. Such an issue usually results in rebuilding a liner or scale, as trying to "fix" it usually ends in the bearing pocket being too deep.

The issue with modern drill presses, versus a milling machine, or the Burgmaster machines, is the quality of build, and the resulting flex in the table when down pressure is applied to the spindle.... with the modern drill presses, amount of pressure applied dictates how much or how little the table flexes. Generally, the smaller the drill press, the lighter the table casting, and the more resulting flex. Yes, it can be compensated for by the operator learning how much down pressure he/she can get away with, for a particular machine, but with a decent mill or the Burgmaster turret presses, that flex does not exist, so it's one less variable... and the more variables you can eliminate from the process, the better your chances for success, which why I like the Burgmaster machines so much when it comes to building folders.

Beyond what I've already said about the Burgmaster machines, you have to realize that they ended production of those machine in 1985, so you are dealing with at the newest, is a 35 year old machine. That means you have to really scrutinize any potential purchase of one. I've had mine in the shop since 1998, and was able to see and look them over in person before buying. Here's a good read on the history of the company in the LA Times in 1987: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-07-12-tm-3203-story.html
 
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EdCaffreyMS said:
use a synthetic gear lube
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Ed, can you indicate what weight of gear lube? And another question if I may. Do you have set height blocks to drill/tap on to make up the difference in length of the tooling? One of the things missing on my burgmaster is the sub plate. It is obvious it had one at some point. I will need to make one.
 
Sorry for not answering sooner, been out of the shop most of today.... Lupus and Fibro kicking my butt again.

Anyway, I use a 75-90 synthetic gear lube in the turret of my machine.

I have extensions on all of the spindles on my machine, but also have a block, it's actually an old suspension spring mount off a D6 Cat dozer. I machined and surface ground it , and seem to keep drilling more and more holes in the thing. :) Every now and then It gets a few passes on the surface grinder....just to be sure.....







 
Thanks Ed, the extensions would be nice. Copy on the lube! I may have to set this aside until I can find one for parts.
 
Hi all, I found this conversation searching for burgmaster info. I am working on my dads bench top model trying to get a feel for current value and noticed some having difficulty with accuracy of hole size, location, depth and or squareness. I don’t know much about making knives but I do know quite a bit about machining(40+ years). I am a tool and die maker and engineer, I have also worked in the aerospace industry for several years. I may be able to give a few thoughts on what, some seem to be having trouble with occasionally. If you are having trouble with size it is usually a incorrectly sharpened drill bit. Both the length and the angle of the cutting edges must be equal. If you are drilling small holes, you must ‘peck’ with the drill. I have drilled holes at .013” diameter. If you don’t ‘peck’ with that small a drill, it can walk more than it’s diameter. A much easier and more accurate hole size can be done with a reamer, yes it takes a little longer and ‘good’ reamers are expensive but hole size is great and reamers can be sized down to the .0001”. Another reamer type is a burnishing tool, they work like a roll tap, they roll and compress the material to size. Or you could just make a quality drill jig. The great thing about a drill jig is your drill press can flex a little and the hole will never know. Another plus is if you need different size holes for different model or type of knife you can just swap out the drill bushing(drill guide) in about 60 seconds or less. A drill jig also forgives a poorly sharpened drill as long as the size of the drill is the same as the drill guide.
When I get my dads Burgmaster running like a top I will try and remember this site and see if anyone is interested. My first job in tool & die field had a no. 1 burgmaster I used all the time. They are a solid production machine but are not for the careless and inexperienced, they can bite hard and do every chance they get. I believe none should be operated without the guards in place and this coming from a guy who use to switch off classmates electromagnetic chucks on surface grinders in school (tool & die trade school) we did some very stupid things in that school!
I have gone on long enough, good luck to you all!
 
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EdCaffreyMS said:
I agree that folders are not really all the difficult, provided you train yourself to think in fractions of a thousandths, rather then fractions of an inch, which is generally how most do when building straight knives..... maybe not literally for all, but that's how I illustrate the point when I try to explain what I consider, the required mindset.

There's no doubt that a person can achieve acceptable results with any drill press, but it requires a lot of trial and error to learn the shortcomings of each particular drill press, and how to compensate to achieve your desired results. The key is being what John said....
That plays right into what I said about the proper mindset.

The best example I can offer is counterboring for caged bearings in a folder..... if the bottom of the counter bore is more than .0015" out of flat, the action will get stiffer and lighter as the blade travels through it's range of motion, if it happens on both counterbores, for me that action becomes unacceptable. Such an issue usually results in rebuilding a liner or scale, as trying to "fix" it usually ends in the bearing pocket being too deep.

The issue with modern drill presses, versus a milling machine, or the Burgmaster machines, is the quality of build, and the resulting flex in the table when down pressure is applied to the spindle.... with the modern drill presses, amount of pressure applied dictates how much or how little the table flexes. Generally, the smaller the drill press, the lighter the table casting, and the more resulting flex. Yes, it can be compensated for by the operator learning how much down pressure he/she can get away with, for a particular machine, but with a decent mill or the Burgmaster turret presses, that flex does not exist, so it's one less variable... and the more variables you can eliminate from the process, the better your chances for success, which why I like the Burgmaster machines so much when it comes to building folders.

Beyond what I've already said about the Burgmaster machines, you have to realize that they ended production of those machine in 1985, so you are dealing with at the newest, is a 35 year old machine. That means you have to really scrutinize any potential purchase of one. I've had mine in the shop since 1998, and was able to see and look them over in person before buying. Here's a good read on the history of the company in the LA Times in 1987: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1987-07-12-tm-3203-story.html
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link great article! I have a love hate(mostly hate) relationship with the counterbore. I can’t even imagine how many holes I have c’bored! The biggest problem with them are people keep using them when they are dull. My favorite memory of a dull c’bore; I was walking back to my bench past a bank of drill presses where a coworker was c’boring the upper die shoe. The c’bore was whining and I commented about it on my way past. When I got to my bench and turned around to see if he would heed my warning, he decided to give up and get another c’bore but it was too late when he started up the friction grabbed the shoe and it caught. With a big die shoe they just snap but this was a tiny shoe, about 10 lbs. and so it lifted, caught and spun then at its most perfectly timed rotational point that vindictive c’bore broke and released that block of steel directly into his crotch! He was on the floor moaning and groaning worse than that dull c’bore and everyone else was dying laughing. I still can’t believe he didn’t need an ambulance!
 
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