So, what tasks does the disk sander do well for knife making?
Budgets and priorities
- Thread starter Absinthe
- Start date
Edwardshandmadeknives
Well-Known Member
It get things flat
. I like to have all my surfaces nice and flat when I start, and it works awesome for that. I also use it on my flat bevels to take out any little “waves” from the belt grinder. Also great if you have a VFD, you can slow it down and use it with automotive sandpaper to put a nice finish on.
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
Please don't misunderstand me, and I apologize if I came off as preachy or as a 2x72 salesman.You don't really need to sell me on the benefits of an actual 2x72. I kind of get that. What I need more is to know how to get along without one until I can afford one. I don't imagine my knives selling well enough, soon enough when I am just learning at this point. But who knows?
The way I see it, hobbies are either a luxury, or they pay for themselves. Other than my soap making, I am not making money with anything else from the woodshop, regardless if it is coming off of the lathe, or the table saw. Granted, making my own beekeeping equipment helps offset some of the expense of that one if that counts towards the wood shop.
As long as I can understand the shortcomings, I can figure out some kind of work-around and alternative process. Just need to get to that point.
The point I was attempting to make was that modifying gear can become a bottomless pit that soaks you of all of your time and money. So many of us have gone down that rabbit hole that it actually hurts to see anybody else do it. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, wants to keep costs as low as possible but always be on guard for false economy. You can spend twice the amount of money trying to modify equipment that will never, ever do what you're trying to get it to do.
Knifemaking is very expensive and I honestly don't know how anyone can do it for very long without selling the knives that they make. So the entire thrust of my advice is to set yourself up for success as early as possible without wasting precious financial resources going down very well trod blind alleys.
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CDHumiston
Well-Known Member
I've poured more money into this hobby than I'll ever make back and I'm okay with that.
The last thing I want is for this to become a business with deadlines and customers rattling my cage all day long.
If I sell a knife, it's one that I've already made. That way there is no pressure or a paying customer waiting for me to get their knife done.
I enjoy doing this so much I don't want it ruined by pressure on me to get product out the door.
I'm fortunate enough to have enough expendable funds to support this hobby just for fun!
The last thing I want is for this to become a business with deadlines and customers rattling my cage all day long.
If I sell a knife, it's one that I've already made. That way there is no pressure or a paying customer waiting for me to get their knife done.
I enjoy doing this so much I don't want it ruined by pressure on me to get product out the door.
I'm fortunate enough to have enough expendable funds to support this hobby just for fun!
The posts I've seen talking about needing more speed for talking about only one aspect of knifemaking. Profiling, heavy grinding, and perhaps even rough bevel grinding. Just as important is the slow part of grinding for knifemaking which in my case is at least half the time (or more?). These speeds are down in the 800 to 1500 sfpm range. Those fast speeds are only for coarse grits. Once you start getting to finer grips you'll need slower speeds.
The last couple of 2X72 grinders I built cost me around $500 or so including motor & VFD running a platen.
The last couple of 2X72 grinders I built cost me around $500 or so including motor & VFD running a platen.
just thought i should throw my 2 cents worth in - for what its worth - i started making knives about 4 years ago. i was doing antique restoration work and already owned a 3/4 hp porter cable 4x36. i started out to make one knife for myself, found the knife dogs forum and learned everything i needed to know to start. fast forward to present - I have made approx 150 knives and sold all but about a dozen. i modified the porter cable work table (enlarged it) and use a hardened piece of 1/8" 1080 for a platen - attached with flush mount screws. i rough-out the knife profile with an angle grinder and finish with the porter cable. i fabricated my jigs for the bevels. okay, i am 71 years young and i will admit that if i had started this 30 years ago i would absolutely have purchase a 2x72 ! i also decided to do my own heat treating so purchased an evenheat kiln. i use high quality ceramic belts - they are worth every cent ! ( i post some of my work on instagram - victors bladecraft) - so my point - use what you can afford and hone your skills, absorb all the knowledge that this forum provides and you will make and sell knives ! by all means aspire to graduate to more professional equipment as soon as possible.
I appreciate it, and I am nowhere near offense.
I realize that there is a $2000 solution that can make the process much more efficient.
I can spend $10 on a pulley to increase speed, or $4 on some scrap steel to improve my platens on existing equipment.
It is wonderful to always use the latest and greatest equipment, but I don't want to "not do it" waiting on being able to afford the biggest and best.
Each compromise comes with a cost, and that may be time for money. And, although it is commonly said that "time is money" I am more of the opinion that "time is time" and "money is money".
In pursuit of hobbies, some expenses are discretionary, while others must be justified. And although I would love to make things that someone would buy, I don't see that happening all so soon. Not that I don't want to, just being realistic. Some day, hopefully.
I do, and I will.
I have already experienced ruining a perfectly good hobby by making it a business. I am working towards enjoyment and learning. If income comes with that then that will be a plus.
Edwardshandmadeknives
Well-Known Member
Amen! Some people do this for their primary income, that’s all good, but there couldn’t be a much sadder situation than waking up and thinking “man, I don’t want to go to work today”, when that work is something you used to love to do.
Yep, been there done that, liquidated a lot of equipment.
tkroenlein
Well-Known Member
You should look at Coote grinders. This is a much better grinder set up than any 1X. You can use something like this forever.
CDHumiston
Well-Known Member
The base package looks to be about $450 with no motor. If you add a VFD which I highly recommend you are at about $1000 maybe?
Am I right on the estimate?
tkroenlein
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that would be one way to go.
A take off motor and a couple hardware store sheaves would be another, if you wanted a lower investment to get going.
I will be using the 1x30's once I get some new belts to whatever they will do. Perhaps it will be a bit slower than a 2x72 and probably more frustrating, but hopefully with a belt that doesn't pop, I should be able to get some stuff done.
As for the 4x36, I started looking at some modifications. The motor it comes with is the slow speed 1750 variety. I was going to try swapping the pulley for a larger drive pulley, but the bore is 14mm or maybe 9/16" or something weird. But, what I do have is an extra 3600 speed double ended craftsman motor for jointer/planer/sander with a 2" or 3" drive pulley on it already. I am in the process of mounting it behind it, the correct distance to simply move the belt from one motor to the other. With the much faster motor and larger pulley 6-8k should be pretty close. I don't have a way to measure it, but my eye and ear, and it sure goes a bunch faster
I have an extra chunk of 4" wide 1018 perhaps as much as 6" or 8" long. I will see what I can do to fasten it, or at least a specific piece of it to the existing platen so that I can get the end of the belt aligned with the end of the platen to do plunge lines. I haven't decided how long I need it to be, but working on smaller knife blades (like for folders and such) I don't see much reason for more than 6" but I bought a whole 12" piece just in case, so I could go wheel to wheel.
I am considering designing a table for it, instead of the stamped steel thing. It seems pretty well connected so I may reuse its mounting holes, or add some more to the opposite side. The underlying wheels look like ABS or some other black plastic so I am not really sure about using them as contact wheels, though I guess I can in a pinch.
So Speed, Platen, Table. Anything else I can do to make this thing any more usable? It would also seem that if I could get a belt longer than 36, I could mount a proper contact wheel either forward or behind, but I would have to first get a belt to experiment with. But that is some design work for another day.
As for the 4x36, I started looking at some modifications. The motor it comes with is the slow speed 1750 variety. I was going to try swapping the pulley for a larger drive pulley, but the bore is 14mm or maybe 9/16" or something weird. But, what I do have is an extra 3600 speed double ended craftsman motor for jointer/planer/sander with a 2" or 3" drive pulley on it already. I am in the process of mounting it behind it, the correct distance to simply move the belt from one motor to the other. With the much faster motor and larger pulley 6-8k should be pretty close. I don't have a way to measure it, but my eye and ear, and it sure goes a bunch faster
I have an extra chunk of 4" wide 1018 perhaps as much as 6" or 8" long. I will see what I can do to fasten it, or at least a specific piece of it to the existing platen so that I can get the end of the belt aligned with the end of the platen to do plunge lines. I haven't decided how long I need it to be, but working on smaller knife blades (like for folders and such) I don't see much reason for more than 6" but I bought a whole 12" piece just in case, so I could go wheel to wheel.
I am considering designing a table for it, instead of the stamped steel thing. It seems pretty well connected so I may reuse its mounting holes, or add some more to the opposite side. The underlying wheels look like ABS or some other black plastic so I am not really sure about using them as contact wheels, though I guess I can in a pinch.
So Speed, Platen, Table. Anything else I can do to make this thing any more usable? It would also seem that if I could get a belt longer than 36, I could mount a proper contact wheel either forward or behind, but I would have to first get a belt to experiment with. But that is some design work for another day.
Edwardshandmadeknives
Well-Known Member
My brother uses a 4x36, and he installed a “link belt” and glued a glass platen onto the existing one. He loves itI will be using the 1x30's once I get some new belts to whatever they will do. Perhaps it will be a bit slower than a 2x72 and probably more frustrating, but hopefully with a belt that doesn't pop, I should be able to get some stuff done.
As for the 4x36, I started looking at some modifications. The motor it comes with is the slow speed 1750 variety. I was going to try swapping the pulley for a larger drive pulley, but the bore is 14mm or maybe 9/16" or something weird. But, what I do have is an extra 3600 speed double ended craftsman motor for jointer/planer/sander with a 2" or 3" drive pulley on it already. I am in the process of mounting it behind it, the correct distance to simply move the belt from one motor to the other. With the much faster motor and larger pulley 6-8k should be pretty close. I don't have a way to measure it, but my eye and ear, and it sure goes a bunch faster
I have an extra chunk of 4" wide 1018 perhaps as much as 6" or 8" long. I will see what I can do to fasten it, or at least a specific piece of it to the existing platen so that I can get the end of the belt aligned with the end of the platen to do plunge lines. I haven't decided how long I need it to be, but working on smaller knife blades (like for folders and such) I don't see much reason for more than 6" but I bought a whole 12" piece just in case, so I could go wheel to wheel.
I am considering designing a table for it, instead of the stamped steel thing. It seems pretty well connected so I may reuse its mounting holes, or add some more to the opposite side. The underlying wheels look like ABS or some other black plastic so I am not really sure about using them as contact wheels, though I guess I can in a pinch.
So Speed, Platen, Table. Anything else I can do to make this thing any more usable? It would also seem that if I could get a belt longer than 36, I could mount a proper contact wheel either forward or behind, but I would have to first get a belt to experiment with. But that is some design work for another day.
I hadn't considered a glass platen, but I have a chunk of steel.
I am not sure if I just want to put it right above the table, or if I want to do it all the way up the whole length of the belt.Edwardshandmadeknives
Well-Known Member
I guess he used double stick “alien tape” to hold it on, and it was a piece of fireplace door glass that he put a slight chamfer on the edges with a DMT hone. Don’t think I would really trust double stick tape with that, but I guess it works. His link belt was something he bought off Amazon. I’ve never used one but he says they work great. He has the machine run with two step pulleys that allow a bunch of different speeds. It looks like the same machine you are using, just modded a LOT.
52 Ford
Well-Known Member
A ceramic tile works too.I hadn't considered a glass platen, but I have a chunk of steel.