Blade-smith Courses/schools

C

CattleMaster247

Active Member
Hey Guys
Just looking for a little input on some courses in knife making. At this point I am at the introductory level, I do have some experience with working with metal but it is minimal. So what are your guys suggestions? And yes, the question asked a million times on sites like this, but what are some of ya'lls sugestions for a forge, I prefer propane, and what new anvil brands do ya'll recommend or which brands to stay away from. I have a 103 pound Peter Wright, but the edges are rounded, and flat surface has some rolls in it. Any info or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Lastly what is a good steel for beginners?
Thanks Again Cattle Master247
 
Welcome to the pound !

As for courses- Where do you live and hows your budget and time for travel.

The American Bladesmiths Society has three schools which offer the 2 week "introduction to bladesmithing course". I, and many others, took it in Arkansas and would HIGHLY recommend it.

More info here- Click the link in white print at the top of the page titled "schools"

http://www.americanbladesmith.com/

For more personalized classes check out Mastersmith Ed Caffrey's website for his classes here-

http://www.caffreyknives.net/classes.html

There's regularly an open forge at hammer-in's where someone new to forging can have the oppertunity to forge a blade under supervision of extremely experience folks. This alone could really shorten a fellas learning curve in the beginning.


I'm not much help on the anvil or forge. I also have a Peter Wright. My edges are rounded quite a bit too but I ground a nice sharp corner on the shelf and it serves me well. My forge is a home built but many folks have commercailly made forges so someone will chime in.

Good steel for beginners- 1084 or 5160 The price is right, very good results can be had heat treating it with your forge, and either will make a hell of a good knife with a good heat treat, also both are forgiving to mistakes so If it doesn't come out exactly as you'ld hoped then re-heat treating is a fairly straight forward affair.

Take care,

Josh
 
I agree with Josh. Ed Caffrey is a great teacher that can teach at what ever level you are at. He is also a great guy as well. You won't regret it.
Jim
 
Hey Josh, The information you sent my way is greatly appreciated. I live in Fort Payne, Al. And travel distance is not too much concern to me, but close to is a bonus. Fort Payne is in Northeast Al, I am 45 min from Chattanooga, 2 hours from Atlanta, 3 from Knoxville, and 1.5 from Birmingham. Cost is also not a huge issue, Just nothing outrageous. I too have looked into the ABS school in Arkansas, and have not heard anything negative about it. The time issue is more of an issue for me, than location nad cost. I am a Cattle Farmer so days off are minimal on the farm, so I'd say a 2 week course would be about my limit, and what better way to take a vacation. Also Ed Caffrey would be amazing to learn from. I will look more into the information you sent my way, and anymore suggestions I might receive. will keep you updated on my decision.


In all the forums I am a member of this one is hands down the best. Thank All of you for the knowledge you guys are sharing.
 
In your location I'd check out this organazation in addition to joining the ABS-

http://www.alaforge.org/

My guess would be that you'll make some great friends in these two organizations who live nearby and are more than willing to assist you in learning the craft of bladesmithing.

It's already over for this year but Batsons bladesmithing symposium at Tannehill st park would be a must attend if I lived closer. Check it out

-Josh
 
Cattlemaster247,
First of all, you got a name? I really don't go for the annonymous handles myself, it makes accountability impossible for those without decency! Not saying that was your intent, or anyone elses, it has been an issue on other forums, enough so that the slanderous words that were printed on a forum, not this one, actually made it a subject of discontent in some of the knife mags.

Now that were passed that, I'm Rex McClellan, in Deatsville, AL - WELCOME TO THE POUND!!! I'm about 3 hours South of you, maybe less if you miss the traffic in Bham, maybe more with all the construction on
I-65, I'm about 20 miles North of Montgomery, and 6 miles off of I-65. You are welcome to come visit my shop anytime I'm available, there is another fella you might want to contact who is a great knife maker, Robert Dark. He's a Knife Dog too, and I think he might be closer to you

If you want to come for a visit, just let me know when you'd like to come, I aint no teacher but I make decent knife every now and again, I can show you what I do and how I make my knives from beginning to end, we can forge a blade together and if you have time, maybe even HT it before you leave. Just give me some heads up, I'm usually home most week-ends unless I find somewhere to go fishing, otherwise I'll be at home, I travel to Montgomery every weekday to work, by Friday I've had enough ridding and way too much CITY!!!!

The only thing I can promise, is that I will share with you every ounce of knowledge I have, I'll answer every question I know the answer too, if I don't know the answer, I'll tell you, I don't know, if we need to know, we'll find the answer! When you make a visit to my shop I promise you'll leave there with more than you came with! One way or another, Rex
 
Your Peter Wright is going to be quite usable for most things even with the rounded edges and uneven surface. It's advantage is that it will have a hardy hole to hold tools and a horn, which I find that I rarely need but when I need one, I need one. What you could do is to be on the lookout for a square or oblong block of steel in the 75-100lb range. I got a cut-off from a block of steel that weighs 87lbs and is approximately 4X7X8" and it will outwork my 110lb English pattern anvil quite well and it's not even heat treated. Actually a block of steel like that is more traditional for knife and saw makers than the English pattern which is more useful in general blacksmithing.

Good steel for the beginner are something in the 1070 to 1084 range. They're good basic steels to forge and heat treat. Some recommend 1095 but some of that has low manganese levels and can cause problems with heat treating. I think that the biggest thing is the inconsistency in the manganese levels means you may have to change your heat treatment routine from lot to lot. The heat treatment for 1095 is also not quite as straight forward as the others. You could go down to 1060. It would make a very tough blade but come up with an incomplete quench hardening because it's so very shallow hardening. You could also try 5160 which is a low chromium alloy that is more deeply hardening than the simple 10XX series but is still easy to forge and simple to heat treat. Stay away from the air quenching tool steels and the stainless steels if you are going to be forging. Steels like O1 and 52100 probably aren't the best for beginners either.

Some of the problems come with availability. Alpha Knife Supply has what they call 1080+, the + is their way of indicating that it has just a little chromium and vanadium added. Not a big deal unless you are trying for hamons or quench lines. At the moment, they don't list it in 1/4". The New Jersey Steel Baron has/had some 1084 that was also "improved" with a touch of chromium. I understand that Aldo, the owner, may have some stuck back if you call him. I've seen no announcement from him as to when or if he will have another batch made up for him. He may have some 1070 but I think that he recommends a water quench with it. Admiral steel stocks what they call 1075/1080 they also carry 5160 in longer lengths only, like 22 feet. Going to a supplier like Alpha Knife Supply, Aldo, or Admiral will be cheaper than buying your steel in 12-18" lengths from supply houses like Jantz. I would recommend that a beginner start out with 1/4" because there is a strong tendency for beginners to hit the steel too hard with forging hammers that haven't had their faces properly dressed. My first successful knife started out 1/4" thick and ended up 1/16" thick. It's a great slicer; it sits in my knife block.

Doug
 
I'm another of Ed's students and I can't say enough good about his course. Money well spent, and I'm cheep
 
Doug,
........errr,........ummmm......... I just don't know what to say...., I mean really!.....

Dude, Chromium???? In Aldo's 1084!?!?! What were you thinking???? I mean really!!!
What kind of Hamon do you think I can get with 1084 with Chromium in it!!!???

I just messing with, you....by know you realized that you were obviously thinking about Chromium when you should have been typing... <- I let you fill in the blank here....I know you KNOW, that's why I'm not gonna correct you!
It always makes me feel crappy when I make a boo boo, so I aint gonna do that to you, instead I tried to make a comedy routine out of it!!!! If anyone got a chuckle from my sick sense of humor, or at least made you smile, then YES! Mission accomplished! Hopefully without making Doug look like he doesn't know what he's talking about because he definitely DOES!!!Rex
 
That's what I understand from other posts. One was specifically on the 1084 from Aldo. Just a touch of chromium. Just like Alpha Knife Supplies 1080+ has just a little chromium and vanadium. More than what would be expected from recycled steel. I have put a quench line on 9260 by clay quenching and the listing I have for it shows 0.07% chromium as well as 2% silicon. I'd have to dig to find the post about the assay for Aldo's 1084; it may not be on this board.
IMG_0137.jpg
Above is the test blade from 9260. It was sanded out to 1800 grit and then etched in ferric chloride.

Doug
 
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Doug,

The rumor I remember reading somewhere was that Aldo's 1084 has a pinch of Vanadium added and hence the moniker 1084 FG (fine grained) as the vanadium encourages the formation of ultra fine grain but also makes it deeper hardening than it would be otherwise.

Maybe we should request certs from Aldo so we know for sure

-Josh
 
to all,
Aldo's site shows 1084 in stock in 1/8" and 3/16". Chrome is listed as 0.15%. Vanadium is listed as 0.004% aks 1080+ blend is almost a slightly lower carbon W5 or W7 tool steel.
 
I nominate this thread for the "Thread Drift of the Year Award". From school recommendation to vanadium content of 1084 from various suppliers...:biggrin:
 
Josh Dabney said:
Doug,

The rumor I remember reading somewhere was that Aldo's 1084 has a pinch of Vanadium added and hence the moniker 1084 FG (fine grained) as the vanadium encourages the formation of ultra fine grain but also makes it deeper hardening than it would be otherwise.

Maybe we should request certs from Aldo so we know for sure

-Josh
Click to expand...

If I remember this correctly, Aldo had a little Vanadium added to regular 1084 recipe, when no one else was putting vanadium in 1084, for a little while there, folks were calling it 1084v, then I saw people started calling it 1084fg, chromium was a standard ingredient so that wasn't a big deal. The Vanadium that Aldo added to his recipe was nothing short of brilliant!!!! His 1084 will always be in my shop, I'm also trying some of his 1075, hoping to pull off a water quench. Speaking of that, it's about time I get to work...in a few! Rex
 
His 1084 will always be in my shop if he ever has another melt made. The cupboard was a little bare when it came to 1084 the last time that I checked. I'm kind of torn between staying with it if the supply becomes more reliable or sticking with 9260, but that's going to depend on what I find out from Admiral Steel when I call them later this month. The 9260 has disappeared from their on-line store though they have it in another listing. I have only found one other seller in the US who carries it and they required a minimum order of $2000 for each size requested and that was about 5-6 years ago. The only other possibility that there might be would be to order the equivalent alloy from England and I'm not too sure of that. The reason is that I have a camp knife type knife that I made from 9260 that I didn't quite like the end results on from a cosmetic/ergonomic point of view so I have used it as a test knife. I've chopped some 2X4 with it and cut up several boxes and I've still not had to resharpen it, though it did drag just a little with the last box I sliced up.

Doug
 
Hey Rex,
Yea I do have a name.
I'm Dugan Nelson Originally from Birmingham, but moved north to Fort Payne, AL.
Rex, I really appreciate the invitation and your willingness to share your knowledge with me. I will look into my schedule and work out a date, I'm off every weekend but the fourth of each month. And I too understand too much City hell I can't stand to spend a day in Birmingham anymore.
I will plan on contacting you in the enar future, once again i appreciate the invitation. One hell of a group of people on here. If you have any dates that are best or one's that arent let me know.
Look Forward to it.
Dugan
 
shop visit

Hey Rex,
Just checking to see if the offer is still on the table about visiting your shop, for some knife making? I've been slammed with work past month, finally slowing up some. Think it would be a great experience. I am able to come almost any weekend, first week of august is great for me. So if you get a little free time, check your books and get back to me at your convenience.
Much appreciated.
Dugan
 
CattleMaster247 said:
Hey Rex,
Just checking to see if the offer is still on the table about visiting your shop, for some knife making? I've been slammed with work past month, finally slowing up some. Think it would be a great experience. I am able to come almost any weekend, first week of august is great for me. So if you get a little free time, check your books and get back to me at your convenience.
Much appreciated.
Dugan
Click to expand...

Dugan,
What do you mean is the offer still on the table? That offer is never removed from the table! When is the first weekend of Aug? Let's see Aug 5th is Sunday and probably the best day for me, lets not be too early, say around 10ish? Unless you need to be earlier, just let me know, if you have GPS, send me your email if not I can just give you directions on here, it's not hard to find if your coming down I-65, it's like 3 turns after you get off the Interstate, easy to get to, let me know if that will work for you, Good to hear you can come, now I'm all excited, I love having visitors, with it so hot, only my shop cat, Moran, will hang out with me out there, and I have to bribe him with food for him to stay, he's good company though, doesn't ask much,...once he's fed, and keeps the mice dead and gone, pretty good for a boy cat! Let me know if that'll work, if not we can work out something else, Rex
 
McClellan Made Blades said:
Dugan,
What do you mean is the offer still on the table? That offer is never removed from the table! When is the first weekend of Aug? Let's see Aug 5th is Sunday and probably the best day for me, lets not be too early, say around 10ish? Unless you need to be earlier, just let me know, if you have GPS, send me your email if not I can just give you directions on here, it's not hard to find if your coming down I-65, it's like 3 turns after you get off the Interstate, easy to get to, let me know if that will work for you, Good to hear you can come, now I'm all excited, I love having visitors, with it so hot, only my shop cat, Moran, will hang out with me out there, and I have to bribe him with food for him to stay, he's good company though, doesn't ask much,...once he's fed, and keeps the mice dead and gone, pretty good for a boy cat! Let me know if that'll work, if not we can work out something else, Rex
Click to expand...

Rex,
Glad to see that the offer was never removed! Really looking forward to the adventure, and meeting Moran! Sunday around 10 sounds excellent, I do have an email CattleMaster247@yahoo.com, and doesn't everyone own a GPS or a phone with a GPS in this Modern Time. In reference to the heat I think I can handle it, I am a farmer, don't have one of those fancy air-conditioned jobs lol. Again I appreciate the invite and your willingness to share the knowledge you have obtained. Email me the address when convenient and let me know if anything changes. Will keep in touch. Have a Great weekend.
Dugan
 
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