Black fox one grinder reviews?
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Jim Levite
Well-Known Member
Brand new. I came across them a few weeks ago. Looks very nice
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Those who know me, know that I trust my instincts, and my "gut". I spent some time today going over the grinder's website. I see many things that lead me to believe that the grinder is designed/produced by someone who has little or no experience with grinding and/or knifemaking. The information also lacks MANY important details about the machine's materials/construction that an experienced grinder would want to know. To be brutally honest, if a person desires a grinder of that style/type, I can't imagine a knowledgeable person spending that kind of money on that particular machine, when the TW90 is cheaper, and has a proven track record. For me the deal breaker is the "homemade" VFD....... I've dealt with VFDs ever since they became commercially available, and experience has taught me that the ONLY brand of VFD I trust is KBAC with a NEMA enclosure. If I'm wrong, then maybe I'll be eating crow, but my gut says this grinder is simply trying to make some money off the current popularity of knifemaking.
Jon Buescher
Well-Known Member
It’s designed by a guy here in Walla Walla, he offered to let me come check it out in person. I plan on doing that but I’ve been pretty busy this week. I know Bruce Bump has one that he is going to test out...
Jim Levite
Well-Known Member
Tracy has them on his site for sale. I'm going to guess he must have seen or tried one before offering to sell them??
Drew Riley
Well-Known Member
Didn’t know they had a webpage, as I’d only seen them in Boss’s store. Looks like USAKM offers some slightly different options. I kinda like the integrated VFD, as it’s a smaller footprint and keeps everything close at hand. Curious what the guts are though, and long term reliability is certainly a valid concern.
I worry about the longevity of the 27 different gas struts, as they all appear to be upside down.
The linear actuator in his deluxe model is interesting, though maybe just another potential failure point, unfortunately. It’s hard to beat the TW-90’s ratchet design for simple and reliable.
I have to agree, for the money, I’d probably stick with TW-90 or a Northridge.
Certainly not the worst design out there, by any means, however.
I’m not sure what some are seeing, but this is what USA Knife is selling: I certainly would not say the maker has “no experience”. And I would trust that Tracy takes some pride in what he sells on his site. In addition, my eyes could be deceiving me, but THAT looks like a KBAC VFD in the picture, RIGHT FROM USA knife maker. And saying a TW-90 is cheaper is unequivocally, and flat out **WRONG**!! I was no math genious in my school days, but when the TW-90 costs $3,600 & the Black Fox One costs $2,499, well according to even MY mathematically limited knowledge, that would mean it is in fact the Black Fox One which is CHEAPER. BY $1,101 to be exact!!! (Did I get that right?)
Just saying....I have an issue with Incorrect statements. And saying the TW-90 is cheaper, is incorrect!
Just saying....I have an issue with Incorrect statements. And saying the TW-90 is cheaper, is incorrect!
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EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Yes and no. You got it right considering you only looked on USA, but no in that you failed to actually look at the products website, and made a lot of uninformed assumptions along the way.
That's kinda the issue with this machine...... it's simply not finished/in a finalized design.
1. On USA site it shows the KBAC controller, and if you look on the actual website for the machine, it show images and talks about "VFD parts" and shows the VFD components housed inside the machines frame/structure.
2.The other clue is that as it's listed on the product's website, the cost for the "pro" version (which most closely resembled the TW90) is indeed several hundred more then the TW90 (as in $4449.99).....
With all due respect, I try very hard to be as polite and tolerant as possible, and offer advice/help as much as I can, and hesitate at this........ BUT for some reason you seem to just wanna be antagonistic and demeaning in just about every interaction I've had with you on these forums....... So, before you jump into "dogging Ed" mode, you might wanna get YOUR facts straight, and consider your own "incorrect statements" before dogging someone else. I might disagree with others from time to time, but that disagreement is based on experience and time at the craft, and those things associated with it...... I do not dog, belittle, nor demean others for their insights and opinions, and would appreciated the same courtesy.
Here's a link to the grinder's website..... https://blackfoxknifeworks.com/knifegrinder?category=2x72 belt grinder What I suspect is that on USA site, it's the first iteration of the machine, as the pic depicts the frame being welding, along with the KBAC controller....... The bottom line is that this machine is obviously not "finished", and that alone should be red flag to potential buyers....at least until the design is finalized.
I spoke with a couple of folks last night about this machine, one of whom is somewhat of an "insider"...... its seems this machine is still "prototype phases", having gone through several iterations so far, with likely several more to come.
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scott.livesey
Dealer - Purveyor
wish I could see one in person. some thoughts looking at photos and the website
it is awfully tall and the motor is not supported by anything but its face. a C face motor will be in the 20-40 pound weight range. there is no way to support the motor. some pix show base mounting holes, some don't. with the motor mounted this way, you will need to bolt the grinder down
handles are ok in some places, no so in others. to hold the tooling arm, I prefer grade 8 socket head cap screws. handles have too many moving parts and cost several times as much as a cap screw.
i see work rest and platen but no tooling arms at all on the site.
i think there are better options out there.
unless you gotta have one today, wait till January and see the new LB1000 and other Wilmont offerings
it is awfully tall and the motor is not supported by anything but its face. a C face motor will be in the 20-40 pound weight range. there is no way to support the motor. some pix show base mounting holes, some don't. with the motor mounted this way, you will need to bolt the grinder down
handles are ok in some places, no so in others. to hold the tooling arm, I prefer grade 8 socket head cap screws. handles have too many moving parts and cost several times as much as a cap screw.
i see work rest and platen but no tooling arms at all on the site.
i think there are better options out there.
unless you gotta have one today, wait till January and see the new LB1000 and other Wilmont offerings
I don’t care about this or that website. When I look for something, I look for it at its most economical form! And that would be from USA KM....which again lists it for the $2,500! I’m not sure what constitutes an additional $1,100 in the TW-90, but whatever.
At the end of the day, I have no dog in this fight. I really don’t care as I think even $2,500 is crazy $$$ for a grinder. As I built mine.... and a surface.....and bought a Mini Mill.....FOR WAY LESS than the cost of a TW-90. Buy I guess if I got rid of all of this, and picked up a TW-90....Well, I guess my knives would magically become so super better! But then again....I don’t forge knives....not a Smith, just a lowly “maker”, so I guess I’m one of the ones with “Little to NO experience”! Man it sucks to be me!
Side note: to be clear...and Ed, I apologize for seeming like I was attacking you, but I wasn’t! Hence why I don’t quote. I’m going after a way of thinking. Might seem like it, but I’m not trying to have a pissing match. I simply can’t overlook very easy things to see with my own eyes! It’s $2,500 on USA KM and very clearly shows a KBAC VFD(which I wouldn’t use anyway!). And if someone thinks they are going to convince me that maybe an extra tooling srm and a wheel are worth another $1,100, well...they are smoking crack! Almost like TDS(Trump Derangement Syndrome), where I’m supposed to deny what is very clear information in front of me.
At the end of the day, I have no dog in this fight. I really don’t care as I think even $2,500 is crazy $$$ for a grinder. As I built mine.... and a surface.....and bought a Mini Mill.....FOR WAY LESS than the cost of a TW-90. Buy I guess if I got rid of all of this, and picked up a TW-90....Well, I guess my knives would magically become so super better! But then again....I don’t forge knives....not a Smith, just a lowly “maker”, so I guess I’m one of the ones with “Little to NO experience”! Man it sucks to be me!
Side note: to be clear...and Ed, I apologize for seeming like I was attacking you, but I wasn’t! Hence why I don’t quote. I’m going after a way of thinking. Might seem like it, but I’m not trying to have a pissing match. I simply can’t overlook very easy things to see with my own eyes! It’s $2,500 on USA KM and very clearly shows a KBAC VFD(which I wouldn’t use anyway!). And if someone thinks they are going to convince me that maybe an extra tooling srm and a wheel are worth another $1,100, well...they are smoking crack! Almost like TDS(Trump Derangement Syndrome), where I’m supposed to deny what is very clear information in front of me.
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Drew Riley
Well-Known Member
A c-face motor will be fine mounted solely from it's face. It may not look like four 3/8" bolts would be very secure, but it is excessively so (assuming proper thread engagement).
Shear strength of a grade 2 (low strength) 3/8" bolt is about 5000 lbs PER bolt. To shear all of them at once, you'd need 10 tons of lateral force. Tensile strength is orders of magnitude higher per bolt (about 74,000 lbs EACH). Proof load (force needed for ANY initial plastic deformation) is a little bit less, but still about 4500lbs per bolt, or roughly 10% less as a rule.
As for the absence of mounting holes, most of the pictures on his website are CAD renderings, not actual machines (which makes me wonder how many if any have actually been produced and tested).
bladegrinder
Well-Known Member
Congratulations for so eloquently letting us know exactly how you feel.
Then feeling this is a good place to trash the president of our country........Classy.
Jon Buescher
Well-Known Member
This is the first and only dramatic post I’ve ever seen on KD. I’m on a couple other forums. KD is far better than others. Mr. Caffrey, as always thank you for sharing your decades of professional smithing experience with the rest of us, you and several other members that post are an invaluable resource to the rest of us that can admit that we’re still learning and seek guidance. Ok I’m done kissing a$$ now lol
scott.livesey
Dealer - Purveyor
I wonder that also and how it will actually perform.
scott.livesey
Dealer - Purveyor
TDS actually exists, reference pg 812 Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 69th Edition.
I served in military for 21 years so both of you can say what you wish(classy or not) and not worry about the not so funny men in leather trench coats and bad hats taking you to prisons with no exit doors.
bladegrinder
Well-Known Member
Ah - the 'ol' "Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 69th Edition" yea, that's what he was referring too.
I don't know how I could have misread that. I forgot about the 69th Edition.
I don't know how I could have misread that. I forgot about the 69th Edition.
scott.livesey
Dealer - Purveyor
best bet seems to be wait a couple of weeks and see what it looks like.
Jon Buescher
Well-Known Member
There’s a guy I know that has and will be providing design input. I’m curious to see the evolution of this product
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