Better finishing.

Guindesigns

Guindesigns

Well-Known Member
I want to get a better finished feeling. Every forged knife I've ever felt feels different than my stock removal knife. To me them seem to have softer edges, if that is possible maybe even rounder, the spines are the biggest things I notice it on. How would I best achieve that feeling actually around my edges and if so with what grit?
 
I break all my edges with a Scotchbrite wheel

It gives a nice and smooth radius

Although I usually have to go back and sand the edges to get the scratches evened up and looking how I want

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I'm not complete sure of what you're talking about, but I assume you mean that the overall feel is more "refined"? If so, it's all about "hands on" time.....NOTHING will give a knife a nicer feel and/or finish than taking the time for hand finishing....you simply cannot achieve it with any machine. Any knife I produce has far more hand work/finishing time spent on it, than all the machine time put together.
 
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EdCaffreyMS said:
I'm not complete sure of what you're talking about, but I assume you mean that the overall feel is more "refined"? If so, it's all about "hands on" time.....NOTHING will give a knife a nicer feel and/or finish than taking the time for hand finishing....you simply cannot achieve it with any machine. Any knife I produce has far more hand work/finishing time spent on it, than all the machine time put together.
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Guin, print this out and hang it in your shop. This is the golden nugget that is irrefutable. Every maker tries to prove it wrong and eventually comes around. Embrace it.
 
Ever wonder how a factory knife can be made so well for $50, in very little time? And a perfectly made handmade version costs ten times that?

A good machine driven process will get a knife to 95% perfection in 5% of the time. That missing 5% is glaringly obvious to the trained eye. That last 5% of real perfection takes 95% more time because it must be done by hand by an actual craftsman.
 
I think everybody starts on their knifemaking journey with the goal of being able to make a knife that is as good as one of their factory-made favorites. But, if we stick with it, we eventually reach a place where we realize that good “hand-made” renders factory made standards an unacceptably low level to set the bar.

I remember, years ago, hearing an older knifemaker at a gun and knife show respond to being alerted to a flaw on his blade with “Of course that is there, it is hand-made! I am not a machine”, as if that flaw was a mark of quality that a factory-made piece would not possess. It should come as no surprise that a few years later, I had never heard of that maker again.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
I think everybody starts on their knifemaking journey with the goal of being able to make a knife that is as good as one of their factory-made favorites. But, if we stick with it, we eventually reach a place where we realize that good “hand-made” renders factory made standards an unacceptably low level to set the bar.

I remember, years ago, hearing an older knifemaker at a gun and knife show respond to being alerted to a flaw on his blade with “Of course that is there, it is hand-made! I am not a machine”, as if that flaw was a mark of quality that a factory-made piece would not possess. It should come as no surprise that a few years later, I had never heard of that maker again.
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i fully concur with the point of " factory made standards an unacceptable low level. "
 
Looking back to my beginnings, my tiny brain simply could not comprehend how my then knifemaking heros could get things so finely finished.... seemingly without flaw or blemish. The things that I often say/post, are simply me repeating things that those knifemakers told me as a beginner.

Here're the cool thing..... I cannot count the number of "new" makers who have balked as me telling them to spend some more hand time on their knives. A select number have been invited to my shop with.... "bring along one of your best finished knives". And then I make them sit at the bench and put some "hand time" into that/those knives.....and I silently keep an eye on the clock while they are working. Only the most crudely finished knives took more than about 45 mins of hand work, and they where 10X better then when they walked in the door. The way I often put it to them is.... "You just turned a $50 knife, into a $250 knife..... and all it took was 45mins, and some elbow grease." Then, I usually see "the lights come one" and after that, most are good to go.
 
Well then I must head in the direction of finishing my knives better because that is where I want my standard to be. Now...what all do I need??
A knife vise.
Sandpaper.
I believe that's all. If anyone has suggestions or tips please let me know. And also if anyone can point my in a vise direction it would be great. Thank you in advance and this was all a great eye opener.
 
One thing I found really helpful for retaining a clean finish on your blades is to wrap them in paper towels, apply WD-40, and then tape around that. Doing this instead of just taping means you won't have the issue of running thg and won't have to clean off tape residue. I think J. Doyle does it this way, and that is where I learned it from. Hope it helps.
 
A knife vise
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If funds are tight, a chunk of 2x4 and a "C" clamp can suffice. Next is QUALITY sandpaper, and maybe a few different type of sanding sticks. Once you see what you can do, you'll keep wanting it "better" and "better". :)
 
A knife vise, that allows you to rotate and move the blade at different angles, is a game changer to be sure. I built my own many years ago, so I can't really help on where to buy one. Finishing abrasives come in countless varieties, and everybody has their preference, but my experience, and advice is that the backing plays a huge role in cutting efficacy. Thinner papers are nice but serious removal can be had with heavier backed abrasives.

For using them, I have several backing sticks. The first is made of steel and is for aggressively removing scratches. Next I have sticks I made from osage orange, any solid and hard wood would probably do, that I have glued eight ounce leather down one side of. The wood is for finer polishing and the leather is for the final, burnished finish. I have found that a good water based cutting fluid will get the job done quicker, due to more aggressive cutting and keeping the abrasive from loading up. Always hand finish at least one grit higher than your final finish and then step back to pull on your even, straight-lined, finish, with no nasty fish hooks.

Oh, and what Ed said about the 2x4 and C-clamp is good advice. I still have to do many of my swords this way. It gives good support and keeps that sharp point from hanging out there.

One last thing- There is production level knives, (which there is nothing wrong with), and there are high end custom pieces, of the type you get an MS rating with. Crisp, clean, lines are maintained with careful hand finishing. Scotchbrite and other flexible, quick-finish machine abrasives, work good for production level knives, but they round out, and wash away, crisp clean lines on high end custom work. For example, most folks should avoid mirror polish work if they think it is done with a buffer. A proper mirror polish is tons of handwork, down to 2000X or better, before a final light buff. Going to 600X and then laying into the buffer like crazy is not a mirror finish, it is a blade with no lines left that is covered with highly polished and smeared scratches and it really looks much worse than a clean 400X satin just done by hand.
 
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Patience and an eye for detail and it will come! Not that I'm that much better now but in the beginning I hated the sanding and the fine details but once you settle in, it will become second nature.
 
There’s a light at the end of the tunnel.

As a new maker I dreaded hand sanding because it was tedious and took absolutely forever. What I didn’t know at the time was that as my work got better, (more accurate and even on the grinder) that my hand sanding time would drop exponentially.

Hand sanding to get the finish you want really doesn’t take much time. But sanding out deep scratches, gouges, dips and waves does take forever. That is truly miserable work.

Slow down on the grinder. Be more deliberate instead of thinking of grinding simply as a way to remove metal fast.
 
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