Best way to practice,practice, practice

smithy

smithy

Well-Known Member
OK, I've been hanging around for about 8/9 months and reading everything I can on just about any phase of knifemaking and I have questions I can't find answers through searching (either there is no material or so much that it is hard to dig through).

1. What material is good to use for practice? (I am VERY tired of ruining my supply of high carbon steel)

2. What is the right way to break in a new belt? (I'm also VERY tired of ruining belts)

3. What is the best way to develop a technique for learning to grind bevels? For example, when I was a new goldsmith, soldering was my nemisis. The secret was developing the proper technique and heat control.

These are a few of my beginning questions. I am trying to vastly shorten the learning curve so that I can make good knives before old age sets in. :) ...Teddy
 
What I did to start off was I started my first knife with a file to get my bevels, this way I had more control. Once the bevels were there I used them to help guide me and I changed the angle gradually until I got to where I wanted to be. Also I got the Bubble jig from Fred Rowe which helped greatly in keeping things even and since it is more of a reference for angle than anything I quickly stopped needing it.
I'm still very new to all of this and have only completed a few knives so take my advice for what its worth but I hope this helps.
 
A good thing to use for paractice is paint stir sticks from the big box stores.Material comes off fast so it will tech you a light touch.And good control.

Stan
 
If you have a local fab shop or scrap yard nearby, you may be able to get "drops" or "cut offs" of mild steel flat stock for the price of scrap (or sometimes less). Sometimes you can even get a useable tool steel or spring steel, but for the most part it will be mild. Either way, it's a great material to have on hand for making templates and practicing your grinding technique, and ultimately, it will probably save you a little $$.

One thing I will suggest: Don't be afraid to use new belts, nor to buy "premium" belts, as when starting out, they can make a huge difference in the learning curve. Worn, dull, or cheap belts won't cut evenly, and it makes getting a clean line or a flat bevel that much more difficult. It's a little more expensive, but what is your time and education as a knife maker worth?

Belt break in: If you're talkinga bout breaking the edges/corners for doing plunge lines, a piece of hardened steel or carbide works well.
As for general use, if I'm grinding bevels on a blade, I'll chamfer the corners to about 45 degrees with a dull/used belt so that the sharp corners of my knife blank don't scrape all the grit off before I get a chance to do anything.

Developing Technique: Everyone grinds a little different, but there are some common "techniques" that help.
Good lighting is a basic must. You can't expect good work if you can't see what you're doing right (or wrong).
Posture and work height is also a huge factor. Don't work "hunched" over, keep your arms/elbows at your sides, and keep your wrists fairly straight. Ergonomics play big into consistency over time.

Lastly, there are a couple of vidoes out there on grinding technique, but take them with a grain of salt. As I said, everyone starts out a little differently.
Fred Rowe's bubble jig seems to take the guess work out of part of it for a lot of people. I've never used one, but I can easily see it's merits. A workrest can also help, though some people swear against them. (I use one).

Aside from that, it really is just a matter of practice, practice, and more practice. The more you do something, the easier it gets, and the more you'll understand it.
 
I used and still use paint stir sticks (free) to practice grinding. I also use some mild steel. I got Fred's Bubble Jig and I use it on occasion these days but, rarely. I use a rest table when profiling and a Bruce Bump file guide to grind my bevels free hand now. I still practice by making wood knives. My family has them in each home made out of hardwoods. Great piece for the coffee table, not to mention the practice I get from making them.

Practice piece???

WoodKnife-Ace Hardware.jpg
 
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Teddy,
1) I personally ground out a few old files with other hand Files for my first attempts. Then I went right to quality bar stock and never looked back.

Others have had good results with the mild steel/Wood stick? I just decided to jump right in. I have my share of "Will Never Leave The Shop" Knives, But I don't think any more than others.

2) I have found that every belt has a sweet spot in speed for grinding.
Generally the finer the belt? The slower the speed.
Buy QUALITY belts. Norton, 3M, Hermes etc and I also like VSM.
Bargain belts are really not a bargain. Ceramic belts rule as far as efficiency and longevity. I use a VSM 36G then a 60G then a 120 Grit then I am on to my cork belts for finishing.

Also I sit down to grind which has it benefits and it's detractors!
I wear a respirator a heavy leather apron that goes past my knees to protect the family jewels as well as the arteries in my legs, my large framed safety eye glasses and a hat to keep me from grinding the end of my nose off or being beat in the face by a shredded or broken belt and to protect my gorgeous locks of hair.

Yep! I am ready for combat!!
I flat & Convex grind mostly and the best way I can tell you how is to envision the angle on the belt side of the steel you wish to grind and practice a firm and even pressure as you start each pass from the Riccasso to the tip.I have a gloved thumb for control on the non-handle side that follows along and slides down the center of the blade and stays in the middle of the platen as I pull it along by the handle. You want to pull the handle a little towards you as you near the tip , BUT not too much.
You can always go back and remove a little more steel, Its hard to put it back if you remove too much.

This is all I have for you this evening.
I truly hope it helps you and any other readers that are learning.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
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Best way I found to practice was to make knives…..but the best way to do it is find a maker around your area that is willing to teach you for your labor……the guys I taught would come in the shop and I would show them how to profile, then I would have them do one……after that I would have them do 15 or 20…..then I would have them do several with NO work rest, only freehand. Then I would teach them to lay out the holes and how to drill them….then they would lay out and drill all the ones they had profiled, then I would show them how to grind…….ect ect, So, best way to practice is to work with a maker that is willing to teach you…… Like my mentor told me, there is lots of time in the evening to do what ever you want, once the shop is clean.

Good luck with it…..if you're not far from MO I could show ya.

John I.
 
messermacher said:
Best way I found to practice was to make knives…..but the best way to do it is find a maker around your area that is willing to teach you for your labor……
Click to expand...

Very good advice! One day with a skilled maker can save you a year of trial and error. We knifemakers are very generous about sharing methods and techniques, and not just online.

1080 steel makes a good knife and costs about the same as new mild steel. It sucks to spend the time on mild steel and then not be able to make a functional knife out of it if it turns out better than expected...

Don't waste you money on cheap belts (unless you're going with the piantstick advice, don't waste good belts on paintsticks, also handle shaping can be done with cheaper belts than what you want for steel). On the rare occasion I don't forge the blade first, I grind a 45 degree bevel on the edge-side of the bar down to the edge thickness I desire, similar to what ARcustom mentions, then grind edge-up. This keeps that 90 degree edge on the bar from stripping the grit off the belt, and grinding edge up allows you to monitor the edge thickness as you grind.
 
i am still learning. I have been roughing the bevels in with bench grinder and files, then use belt sander to finish. I have found draw filing to be a zen kinda thing like some folks described hand sanding.
ask around about industrial scrap or visit a local machine shop. we throw out tons of steel each year(after I pick out the good stuff). the machine shop across the street allows to dive his scrap whenever I want.(found a 4"x5"x1/4" piece of CPM9V the other day)
 
Buy a 6' length of Mild steel 1 1/2 to 2" x 3/16" chop up 6 pieces to 1'.
Scribe your center line on top and bottom spines .
Next , scribe some lines on front and back 1/4" apart full length of steel front and back.
Then tape off a a ricaso at 6". You're going to be working both sides of tape as well as top and bottom of steel also front and back.. Don't draw in any curves .. The point is to practice grinding straight lines and following a line as well as working yourself close to the ricaso..
After your go through grinding fronts , backs, tops bottoms and learn to follow lines and working close to center line , you then can draw up a knife on the remaining pieces of steel and actually practice making the knife .. It's not a bad idea to scratch those vertical lines in the blade just to give you reference for your grinding..

I think if you can get the feel of grinding straight and following lines and just getting comfortable with grinding, the rest will come.. Then when you get yourself a file guide for your plunges , you'll see a nicer difference..

Again , it my two cents. I'm hoping that will help..
 
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