Belt grinder

A

Absinthe

Well-Known Member
So some money will be flowing, and it might be time to pick up an actual decent 2*72 belt grinder.

I know I want to have platen and contact wheel and slack belt access, ability to do surface grinding to thickness would be a big plus.

Shop is wired both 120/240.

What brand/model offers best bang for the buck?
 
If I were to do it again I'd go with a KMG w/ tilt. Minimum 1.5 horse motor preferably 240v. And variable speed a must. once you learn to use it it'll save u time and money. However my main is a Pheer, 1 horse 2x72. Variable speed. Good solid tool, tracks well however my motors to small , if I lean into it I can stop the motor. I should upgrade to a 1.5.. just lazy.
As for surface grinding, as far as I know, there are only attachments for a 2x72. And those can be expensive. Don't have one so others can offer better suggestions
 
Absinthe said:
So some money will be flowing, and it might be time to pick up an actual decent 2*72 belt grinder.

I know I want to have platen and contact wheel and slack belt access, ability to do surface grinding to thickness would be a big plus.

Shop is wired both 120/240.

What brand/model offers best bang for the buck?
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If you have the room and find yourself doing a lot of surface grinding, get an old surface grinder.

You gotta think, they're made to hold tenths tolerances, so even when they're pretty worn, they aught to be plenty accurate enough for flattening stock.

I've seen blacksmiths - knife makers in particular - that have converted surface grinders to accept grinding belts instead of wheels.

You can get an old, very high quality surface grinder for WAY less than "pro grade" 2X72 belt grinder. I saw a Brown & Sharpe for under $1,000 is usable condition.

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vlegski said:
If I were to do it again I'd go with a KMG w/ tilt. Minimum 1.5 horse motor preferably 240v. And variable speed a must. once you learn to use it it'll save u time and money. However my main is a Pheer, 1 horse 2x72. Variable speed. Good solid tool, tracks well however my motors to small , if I lean into it I can stop the motor. I should upgrade to a 1.5.. just lazy.
As for surface grinding, as far as I know, there are only attachments for a 2x72. And those can be expensive. Don't have one so others can offer better suggestions
Click to expand...
MINIMUM 1-1/2HP.

Doesn't come into play for most operations you do, but if you're trying to rough in a blade - or in my case cleaning up plasma cut edges to weld or whatever, you'll be glad you have that extra 1/2HP.

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I’ve got two old KMGs, Bradley. They operate well. Were I to look at a new grinder I would do as Todd suggests and check out Reeder. I hear great things about Northridge Tool grinders, too, but they are said to be slow to come to a surface grinder attachment (SGA in forum parlance). I plan on speaking with Reeder and Travis Weurtz about their SGAs fitting my KMGs. Weurtz builds a grinder, too, but I don’t hear as much about it. Another old name in the industry is Bader. Lotsa Baders in the south. Hardcore and Burr King are two other names you could check out.
Good luck deciding. Lotsa choices from the Coote, Grizzly, USA Knifemaker, to the full blown jobs with all the attachmnts.
Being a knifemaker is a lot like owning a boat…
 
fitzo said:
I’ve got two old KMGs, Bradley. They operate well. Were I to look at a new grinder I would do as Todd suggests and check out Reeder. I hear great things about Northridge Tool grinders, too, but they are said to be slow to come to a surface grinder attachment (SGA in forum parlance). I plan on speaking with Reeder and Travis Weurtz about their SGAs fitting my KMGs. Weurtz builds a grinder, too, but I don’t hear as much about it. Another old name in the industry is Bader. Lotsa Baders in the south. Hardcore and Burr King are two other names you could check out.
Good luck deciding. Lotsa choices from the Coote, Grizzly, USA Knifemaker, to the full blown jobs with all the attachmnts.
Being a knifemaker is a lot like owning a boat…
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DO NOT USE BEAUMONTS SGA. Good god I nearly had to sue them. Edit: The Wuertz attachment for kmg works.
 
fitzo said:
Being a knifemaker is a lot like owning a boat…
Click to expand...
There is so much truth in that statement - I lived on a 40 ft sailboat for over 25 yrs, so am well experienced in cost of boats. I can remember it seemed everything needed (desired?) came in multi-thousand dollar increatments.

I 2nd your comment on Reeder - were I to actually purchase a new grinder and attachments (and money were no object) I'd go with Reeder across the board. Their SGA is really slick,
 
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KenH said:
There is so much truth in that statement - I lived on a 40 ft sailboat for over 25 yrs, so am well experienced in cost of boats. I can remember it seemed everything needed (desired?) came in multi-thousand dollar increatments.

I 2nd your comment on Reeder - were I to actually purchase grinder and attachments (and money were no object) I'd go with Reeder across the board. Their SGA is really slick,
Click to expand...
You have my interest peaked.
 
I have narrowed it down to 4 options with similar features and similar costs:

1. OBM - with with 1.5 hp motor (single speed), 10" contact wheel, tilt table, bench and extra arms as necessary for tilt table and contact wheel.
2. KMG - 3 speed with 2hp motor, 10" contact wheel
3. AmeriBrade - 3 hp single speed motor, combination platen with 6" contact wheel, tilt table (This comes out a couple hundred less than the other two, but I have an email out as to whether I need their stand, or a baseplate, or just bolt it to my bench.
4. AlecSteele - This one came one way. So it has their own custom VFD, 2hp motor, a fully revolving platen, that will allow me to use 2", 3" or 5" contact wheels, or the platen, or slack belt, without pulling the arm or removing the platen. Claims to be plug-n-play, as it is already wired with a NEMA 6-15P plug, which will plug into the 220 outlets in my shop. There are some user images, at least one of which shows it mounted in the horizontal orientation. They want an additional 97.34 shipping which is still under 2000.


The OMB tilts right off the bat, and has its own bench to mount it to. The KMG doesn't look like it could ever go horizontal. The AmeriBrade can later be converted to tilt horizontal. All three could later be converted to some kind of 3P/driver motor, though I question whether I would want to do so with the KMG. All of them have the ability to take other tools at some point, such as small wheels, or larger contact wheels. Although, I have been warned that very small wheels should be run on variable speed so they can run slowly enough to not burn up the bearings. I can also jiggle things around to get the AmeriBrade to come in right around the same as the others, or perhaps 100 higher by purchasing their stand, and horizontal flipper.

This is right in the 1800-1900 range with the AmeriBrade coming in around 1644.

The one nice thing is that AmeriBrade's website has no problem showing their warranty statement. Where, I couldn't find it on the the other 2. It also seems that buying the KMG from USAKnifeMaker comes out just a hair cheaper than from Beaumont metals. But I am not 100% sure exactly why. In addition to that, OBM wants 438.91 in shipping, where the other 2 are free based on the cost, and fact that I am in the US.


This is what I have come up with so far, pretty sure OBM will be eliminated first, just for their ridiculous shipping charges. :)

Any personal experience opinions on the other 3? Good, bad or otherwise?
 
KMG was the gold standard until about 10 years ago when Travis Wuertz revolutionized the game with the TW90 grinder. (I'm getting older, so don't quote me... when somebody says 20 years ago I think 1988). The only holdup on that grinder was that it was very expensive, even for a 2x72 which are all expensive to begin with.

Nowadays everybody has basically cribbed off of the TW90 with the horizontal flip. I can't blame them.

I have been using the KMG-10 as long as I've been making knives (about ten years) and it has never had one hiccup. I'm still using the original wheels, original motor, original everything. The KMG will still be grinding steel into dust after I've turned to dust. It's a rock solid machine. The new one flips, so there's that.

If I was just buying my first grinder, and I could afford it, it would be a variable speed. No ifs, ands, or buts. If I had money left after that option I'd get one that flips horizontal. But in that order. Variable Speed is a game changer. Horizontal capability is a nice-to-have, but is more valuable if you make folders. Still not as valuable as variable speed, not even close.

Ken H has been beating the drum for a long time that you can save a pocket full of cash by using your own motor and VFD rather than buying a complete package, and he is absolutely right. You won't get the sleek package of the KBAC drive, but you can save hundreds of dollars. You may also need to have 220V, Ken can correct me on this if I'm wrong. But I think only the KBAC will run a 220V 3-ph motor off of 110V.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the options you listed.
 
John Wilson said:
KMG was the gold standard until about 10 years ago when Travis Wuertz revolutionized the game with the TW90 grinder. (I'm getting older, so don't quote me... when somebody says 20 years ago I think 1988). The only holdup on that grinder was that it was very expensive, even for a 2x72 which are all expensive to begin with.

Nowadays everybody has basically cribbed off of the TW90 with the horizontal flip. I can't blame them.

I have been using the KMG-10 as long as I've been making knives (about ten years) and it has never had one hiccup. I'm still using the original wheels, original motor, original everything. The KMG will still be grinding steel into dust after I've turned to dust. It's a rock solid machine. The new one flips, so there's that.

If I was just buying my first grinder, and I could afford it, it would be a variable speed. No ifs, ands, or buts. If I had money left after that option I'd get one that flips horizontal. But in that order. Variable Speed is a game changer. Horizontal capability is a nice-to-have, but is more valuable if you make folders. Still not as valuable as variable speed, not even close.

Ken H has been beating the drum for a long time that you can save a pocket full of cash by using your own motor and VFD rather than buying a complete package, and he is absolutely right. You won't get the sleek package of the KBAC drive, but you can save hundreds of dollars. You may also need to have 220V, Ken can correct me on this if I'm wrong. But I think only the KBAC will run a 220V 3-ph motor off of 110V.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the options you listed.
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What is the specific benefit of flipping? My main interest is folders and other small blades, and your qualification of "Horizontal capability is a nice-to-have, but is more valuable if you make folders." still makes me wonder what it is that one does in the horizontal configuration?
 
Flipping the grinder onto it's side is the easy button for 90 degree angles, and particularly on an inside radius. Being able to lay your blade flat on a work rest and bump it up against a contact wheel running left/right makes it much easier to grind an inside radius and keep the grinds square to the blade.

Example. You cut out your blade shape at the bandsaw and now you take it to the grinder to profile it. You lay the blade blank on the work rest and run it against your belt on the flat platen. This give you a pretty square corner all the way around the knife. Okay, now you add a finger groove or some curvy line to the shape of the knife. How do you grind the inside of that shape and keep the line smooth and square? You can get pretty close by using the corner of your platen and a light touch, but sooner or later you have to take off the work rest and use some kind of contact wheel and run the blade across the wheel vertically. You do this a LOT with folders because they are curvy, and you when you make the relief on the backspring to set your tension on a slipjoint. It's hard to keep the steel both vertical and square to the belt at the same time. It can be done, but it takes a lot of practice.

I'm sure there are a bunch of other good uses for a horizontal grinder, but since I don't have one I'll leave that to others with experience.
 
John Wilson said:
Flipping the grinder onto it's side is the easy button for 90 degree angles, and particularly on an inside radius. Being able to lay your blade flat on a work rest and bump it up against a contact wheel running left/right makes it much easier to grind an inside radius and keep the grinds square to the blade.

Example. You cut out your blade shape at the bandsaw and now you take it to the grinder to profile it. You lay the blade blank on the work rest and run it against your belt on the flat platen. This give you a pretty square corner all the way around the knife. Okay, now you add a finger groove or some curvy line to the shape of the knife. How do you grind the inside of that shape and keep the line smooth and square? You can get pretty close by using the corner of your platen and a light touch, but sooner or later you have to take off the work rest and use some kind of contact wheel and run the blade across the wheel vertically. You do this a LOT with folders because they are curvy, and you when you make the relief on the backspring to set your tension on a slipjoint. It's hard to keep the steel both vertical and square to the belt at the same time. It can be done, but it takes a lot of practice.

I'm sure there are a bunch of other good uses for a horizontal grinder, but since I don't have one I'll leave that to others with experience.
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that makes sense... I won't tell you what I did before for that :)
 
I am down to these 2.

The Alec Steel 2x72 kit Grinder
or
Similarly configured AmeriBrade based off of the Fastback 2x72


Any strong last opinions before I just flip a coin? :)
 
Absinthe said:
I am down to these 2.

The Alec Steel 2x72 kit Grinder
or
Similarly configured AmeriBrade based off of the Fastback 2x72


Any strong last opinions before I just flip a coin? :)
Click to expand...
If you're down to flipping a coin.... which one looks cooler? :)

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52 Ford said:
If you're down to flipping a coin.... which one looks cooler? :)

Sent from my Champion Forge using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I have a leaning towards the Alec Steele one right now. It already has a plug that matches the ones in my shop :) I am not sure if it is a good thing or not.

The AmeriBrade has 2" tool arms, where it seems like all the others I have looked at standardized on 1-1/2" ones. I am not sure whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. Or just a thing.
 
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