Basic heat treating

E

Eliminite

Well-Known Member
I am new to knife making my knives are being cut with a water jet and I'm going to need to be heat treating them. I was considering outsourcing to a heat treating company but it seems like it might not be very cost effective.

has anyone got some friendly advice or any suggestions for doing the same type of method, and are there any suggestions for me?


I am hoping there might be a method or way to make this step as cheap and as professional as possible.
 
I don't understand at all what you are asking. What "same type of method" are you referring to? Do you want to outsource your heat treatment, or do you want to do it yourself?
 
need to tell us what steel you are using. basic high carbon steels and some tool steel, like 1084,1095,15N20, and O1, need 1500F and oil to quench in, not too big a deal to do. 440C and other stainless is 1900-2000F with long soaks and tight temperature control, a big deal.
scott
 
If you think your into this for the long haul, you'll eventually want to get a heat treat oven. New ones run around $1000. If you're sending them to heat treated, just try to send an order big enough to get the price break. For carbon steels, you can try using a torch, going just past non-magnetic and quenching in heated oil. Non very scientific, but many blades are made that way.
 
To build on what Scott said, cost effectiveness is relative. Simple steel blades can be heat treated with a simple forge that is not all that expensive to build. If you are going to deal with an air hardening, high carbon tool or stainless steel then you will need a heat treating oven. Unless you are good at building things it will cost you the best of $l000 to buy one. Plus you might have to have some rewiring done to be able to plug it in.

Doug
 
Three suggestions;

  1. Build a simple forge and HT blades yourself. This involves a learning curve - can be done fairly cheaply - probably a few failures - and a limited steel selection. This becomes economical around 6 -10 blades maybe.
  2. Buy a HT oven. This still involves a learning curve - and even a few failures, but you can pretty much choose the steels you want to use. This becomes economical around 100 blades or so.
  3. Send out larger batches of blades to be professionally heat treated all at once. With many places, this really brings the cost per blade down

Rob!
 
Rob, your the man!

I will probably outsource a first batch and then end up purchasing my own.
I was going to be using A2 or D2 tool steel for the designs that I've got going.

To anyone else, sorry the post didn't make much sense to begin with I was at work trying to start a thread on my phone, it can get a little hectic.
 
It also depends on how many blades you are talking about. When you mention "Cut with water jet" I tend to think of a fairly large batch of blades as in a semi-production run. Also, as mentioned before, what type of material.

1 or 2 blades you can "rig something" to heat treat, but for a batch of 20 to 50 blades, even commercial HT'ing is too bad with the price break you get.

Ken H>
 
Do you have any experience with that sort of quantity?
Because to be honest with you I am a college student, I work two jobs and am
trying to get this thing going. I am only going to be able to afford about 5 with the price
break their giving me. Not to mention I don't have too much of a customer foundation.

So I do have fears that this will go south quick but I am too caught up in the will to get this
running for me.

I know I can rig something together but I would much rather have a professional product
rather than something that is home brewed.


SO, 20 to 50 blades, no. But yes eventually hopefully I can gather enough momentum.
 
Self Made Knives said:
If you think your into this for the long haul, you'll eventually want to get a heat treat oven. New ones run around $1000. If you're sending them to heat treated, just try to send an order big enough to get the price break. For carbon steels, you can try using a torch, going just past non-magnetic and quenching in heated oil. Non very scientific, but many blades are made that way.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I do appreciate the advice.
 
Where do you live? There might be another maker around that would lend you some oven time. You show up with a 6 pack and a pizza and you're in. Heat treating isn't that big of a deal to the guys that are set up for it and it seems like most makers are willing to help the new guys out. If a new guy came to me to do a couple of blades, I would welcome the visit (I'm set up for HT, but I'm a new guy too). Look around for someone in your area.
 
Eliminite said:
Do you have any experience with that sort of quantity? ...... I am only going to be able to afford about 5 with the price break their giving me.
Click to expand...

You get a good price break on 5 blades with water-jetting? I didn't realize only 5 blades would be cost effective. What price for the batch of 5 blades? You've not said where you are? Anywhere around here? If so, come on over and we'll work with you on HT'ing the blades.

edit: fill our your profile to where you're located - that will help folks know if they can help.
Ken H>
 
Im up in northern California's bay area a little north of san Francisco.
I think Todd Begg is up here and a major collector Miles Welze, I do talk with miles
pretty frequently, but Todd Begg I cant really reach. Most of his little underlings are
usually the ones replying to my emails
 
Also, my uncle owns a machining shop down in san diego and will help me out,
but he just got contracted for a 600k $ job so the machines he has are gonna be tied
up for quite a while. I have reached out to someone he directed me to so I have CAD
designs ready to go saved to a thumbdrive that I can pass over to them and they can
just input them into their machines and cut them out. Anyway, the price break gets
to be pretty significant after the 5th one, gave me a deal of about 100$ to start
so five is gonna be the best amount.
 
Just for reference..... water jetting blades should still be pretty cost effective even in small numbers. There might be a one time set- up/cad/programming fee (per knife pattern) of $75-$100 that's pretty standard but after that, blades should be $4-$6 each. If they quote you more than that, I think I'd look around for a different water jet company.
 
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