Avoiding legal problems

Screwy Squirrel

Screwy Squirrel

Well-Known Member
Just a question, should I be sending out some kind of waiver with my knives so I am not held responsible for stupid things people do with them ? Thank You for any help.:les:
 
I guess you could, but if someone really wanted to screw you over because they did something dumb, the waiver wouldn't do much.
 
I've always held that if you have money and a lawyer you can sue a ham sandwich. That said, I do my bladesmithing as a Limited Liability Corporation (in Oregon an individual can do that for $100/year) - maybe that's worth it, maybe not...
 
It's sad, but every time we send a knife out the door, we take a chance. As has been said, there isn't anything that we can do to protect ourselves 100%. I once had an individual try to sue me because I had sharpened his knife for him, and he cut himself bad enough to take 14 stitches. There were TWO things that saved my butt....as he was walking out the shop door, I told him "I'm not responsible if you cut your fingers off with that thing!", and a friend/client who is a lawyer, that took care of the situation with one phone call.

I should probably not say this because I'll jinks myself....but I'm waiting for the day a police officer shows up at my place saying "Mr. Caffrey, we found this knife in a man's chest...and it has your name on it."

The one place where I feel a Waiver of Liability is a MUST, is if you teach. Every student that comes through my door is required to sign a Waiver of Liability before we ever begin a knifemaking class.
 
Anybody can sue you for anything, anytime. Sueing and winning are two different things. There is enough case law that is pretty much assumed that a knife is sharp and can cut you. But then, most people would assume that coffee is hot.

Where you are more likely to be sued is if your knife fails. Say if the blade snaps while using it. I carry a $1M liabilty insurance policy. It costs me $500 per year but I can't risk not having it. I also operate as a LLC which some gives some protection of my personal assets if I get sued.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
I should probably not say this because I'll jinks myself....but I'm waiting for the day a police officer shows up at my place saying "Mr. Caffrey, we found this knife in a man's chest...and it has your name on it."
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Yeah, what a nightmare... the fact that keeps me from freaking out over that "possibility" is, the huge majority of crimes involving knives take place with $5 junk, not high-end custom pieces.

Once again, I invite you all to look into joining and supporting American Knife and Tool Institute and/or KnifeRights. If you're an NRA member (and I bet a lot of you are) you will understand how important this can be.

As far as insurance, LLC etc, I will be watching this thread for more information. Thanks for bringing it up, Screwy Squirrel!
 
Thank You all for the help, I am going to do what I can to protect myself and from there I suppose you can only do so much. As stated if you have the right lawyer they will sue for any reason. I have a friend who is a lawyer and will see what he says and post the results here when I find out. Again thank you all for your help. Mike Newbrey.
 
Become an LLC if you're going to start doing this as a business. That way if you get sued, they can only take your shop stuff, etc. and can't get your personal stuff. I highly recommend finding some good business insurance for your knifemaking too. If a fire starts in your shop/garage and burns you down, your home insurance can use that to not pay. Scary stuff.
 
Ive been thinking of these exact questions. Some great advice here. Im looking into LLC soon. Is it worth it for a "part time" maker or is it more a full time maker thing?
 
fishwolf said:
Ive been thinking of these exact questions. Some great advice here. Im looking into LLC soon. Is it worth it for a "part time" maker or is it more a full time maker thing?
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Anyone can set up an LLC. You can do it online for around $100 or less. The downside is that it does complicate your tax reporting.
 
How much protection from a lawsuit does an LLC really offer you? I have been looking at forming an LLC for my knife business, and have heard that it prety much protects your personal things completely if you get sued, then others have said not so much. Is an attorney the only way to find out for sure?
 
The idea is that by separating your business and personal assets anyone who sues you over a business incident can only sue the business. However, I too have been told by an attorney that there are ways that a person could still go after your personal assets. I would suggest that you talk to a lawyer and an accountant to see what works best for your situation.
 
If I smash my thumb with a hammer or step on a garden rake and sing soprano I can sue Stanley Tools? Shoot my self in the foot with my Glock, I can sue them too?
I'm not a professional knifemaker but this topic makes me sick. I saw an idiot nearly cut his hand in half with a Collins Machete while cutting line of sight in the swamp, a ghastly sight...He healed up but never worked on my crew again. I'll never understand people that are not willing to stand up for their own actions. I feel for all of you who face these issues, easy for me to say...
 
An LLC offers a lot of protection of your personal assets, with the caveat that you must run your LLC properly. If you don't run your LLC properly, then the veil of protection can be pierced and someone suing you can go after your personal assets as well. By running your LLC properly, you have to be sure that you treat the business as being separate from yourself, so you'd want to be sure you did things like maintain a separate banking account for your business, provide the business adequate capitalization, don't use your business banking account to pay for personal expenses like rent or groceries, and that sort of thing. There is a good legal guide, The Operations Manual for LLCs by Michael Spadaccini, that has a good chapter on how to avoid having the veil of corporate liability pierced, along with other issues like taxation. And, considering laws and case law vary from state to state, there's no substitute for paying a good attorney in your area for sound legal advice.
 
I know this is an old thread, but I have talked to a lawyer about the LLC, and he advised me that if I am personely making a product, and someone gets hurt with it, they could still sue me personely, but if I own a company where an employee makes the products, then the LLC would protect my personal assets. But then he said that a knife is made to cut and it would be hard to win a case where someone cut themselves, unless it broke or failed in some way or another and caused it. Like it was said above, you can sue a ham sandwitch, but you may not win. Just wanted to pass along what I learned from a 10 minute talk with a lawyer.
 
Whether you sue a ham sandwich - or a negligent maker - the only ones who win are the lawyers. The rest of us lose for sure. I'm starting to understand why our insurance companies won't let us sell to the US. We see our friends and clients. The insurance compnies see their bloodthirsty lawyers. <sigh> It sucks! :-(

Rob!
 
I agree Rob, it is all messed up when you can sue someone for your own stupid actions. No one takes responseability for their own actions anymore. And lawyers have created alot of this, job security I guess.
 
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