Anybody else simply not interested in making sheaths to go along with their knives?

J S Machine

J S Machine

Well-Known Member
I have been kicking around the knife making thing since about 2007, and I have only made a few knives. I have found that the one thing about a fixed blade knife is that it really isn't complete without a sheath. This problem isn't really there when making folders or pocket "carry" knives.

I know there are many here who actually carry fixed blade knives, but let's be honest..You just don't see it too often. Not in the general public anyway.

I like to approach and make fixed blade knives because they are easy, at least in the respect that they are not as hard as a folder. No moving parts, just a blade and handle. However, I have no interest in learning to make sheaths really. I'd like to be able to do it, but if I do it I want to do it right, and that takes time and patience that I don't really have. That's the simple truth. It has been hard enough for me to continue with making knives and stick with that. Add the element of learning to do sheaths and it gets pats the scope of my interest in the whole "knife making" hobby.

I know there are many makers who make excellent sheaths and also sheath makers. Paul Long made a sheath for a charity knife I made last year and the thing was over the top. I was blown away.

I feel like it would not be profitable to makle knives and then have a sheath maker do the sheaths for every one. Does anybody do this? I understand having a good sheath maker do one for a high end custom or a very special knife, but your regular "production" type knives you sell on a regular basis?? I'm not sure what sheath makers charge, but I'm sure it is enough that it would be more profitable to learn to do it yourself.

Anybody have any thoughts on this?
 
I do EDC one of my own fixed-blades and I wish more people would. Mainly because I don't make folders (yet) ;)

J S Machine said:
However, I have no interest in learning to make sheaths really. I'd like to be able to do it, but if I do it I want to do it right, and that takes time and patience that I don't really have.
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I completely agree, and it's a conundrum. Luckily, I found a way out of it... my girlfriend makes my sheaths now. I help with the wet-fitting and finishing, but she does all the important work like cutting the leather to make sure they fit right and most importantly, stitching. She uses a locking stitch pattern so each one is actually an individual hidden knot - if a stitch ever gets worn through or cut, the whole thing can't unravel. Watching her do it just confuses me.

I used to buy factory-made sheaths from TKS and similar suppliers, and wet-fit them to my knives. They're somewhat limited in choices, but actually quite well-made and sturdy. I also bought a couple handmade sheaths off Ebay in the past and got lucky finding a guy who made good quality for low prices.
 
Simply put, good sheaths help sell knives, even folders.Your definately not in the minority, many makers dislike leatherwork, so they either do a half-hearted attempt at something just to wrap the knife, go to kydex, hire a sheathmaker, and some still yet sell knives without sheaths and leave the burden of getting a sheath to the customer.If your only reason for learning to do a sheath is to save money and you have no real interest in leather,it will show up in your work.A quick walk through any knife show, will show you makers that obviously don't like leatherwork much, the ones that took the time to learn the craft, and the ones who hire it out.
The price of having a sheathmaker can usually pay for itself.With a quality sheath you can charge more, you can avoid having to spend the money on those materials and tools needed to do leatherwork, and it free's up time to do more knives.As far as prices go, approach a sheathmaker with multiple orders versus a sheath one at a time and most will give you a discount, but remember many of us make our living this way.Also sheaths are alot like knives in that they can be total basic to full blown customs and the pricing can vary the same.Do yourself a favor and shop around, there are many fine sheathmakers here.
And yes,I carry a fixed blade everyday and have for 20 years. Dave
 
I collec tcustom made knifes and have used different sheath makers. I now have Dave Cole make all my sheaths. Reason being his workmenship is out standing. He will make from a high end to low end priced sheath. No matter what the price the leather and workmenship is always first class. One more reason he will make a true custom sheath made to exactly what you ask for. I have gotton 12 sheaths from him in the last year and I am 110 % happy. KT
 
DC KNIVES said:
Simply put, good sheaths help sell knives, even folders.Your definately not in the minority, many makers dislike leatherwork, so they either do a half-hearted attempt at something just to wrap the knife, go to kydex, hire a sheathmaker, and some still yet sell knives without sheaths and leave the burden of getting a sheath to the customer.If your only reason for learning to do a sheath is to save money and you have no real interest in leather,it will show up in your work.
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Dave, thank you.

This is a great response that explains how I am feeling from a sheath maker's perspective. You helped me see some points I didn't even realize.

I love working with knives, but I don't have the time to do it as much as I would like. That should be pretty obvious, seeing how I have turned out a total 7 blades all together since 2007. I am so critical of my own work it takes me ages to build one start to finish. I just don't feel like I want to devote the time to trying to learn leatherwork at the moment, or in the next few years. I think it would be a very good part of this hobby to get in to, but I have trouble keeping interest in knives for the time being.
 
JS,

There are LOTS of different options that'll solve your sheathmaking issue. The great thing about these options is you can pick one and run with it or use any combination at your desire.

I'm only guessing here but, have you ever made a sheath, done any leatherwork, or similar type craft ? I'm only asking because you may be overlooking the fact that you just might enjoy it in the long run. Perhaps not as easy as finding a knifemaking mentor but it could be worth it for ya to visist a maker who does leatherwork and make a basic sheath along with them. This would give you the oppertunity to get your feet wet without investing in a bunch of materials and tools.

If you to go the basic sheath route there are options there-
-Buy pre-made sheaths like James mentioned
-Slap together a basic sheath yourself with a little learning and an hour and a half or so
-Slap together a basic sheath yourself glued up in 15 or 20 minutes and take it to the local shoe repairman and pay him a few bucks to stitch the welt
-Go with kydex, watch Bossdogs "how to" videos and you'll have good functional sheaths in a short amount of time for a small investment
-Have a sheathmaker make your basic sheaths for you. (Paul long is the cream of the crop and doesn't do "basic" much but there are plenty of leatherbenders out there who do, and specialize in "basic" meat and potatoes type sheaths)

Will this route be "profitable" ? Of course, it'll be just as profitable as selling a knife without a sheath. Say you make a $200 knife. Have a sheath made for $45. Now you've got a $245 package. Will there be any value added by having a basic sheath, NOPE. If you want to increase the profit margin of your knife you'll have to make sheaths yourself and do a good job of it. I speculate that you'll find this to be the case no matter if your doing basic sheaths or paying a sheathmaker for a high end custom sheath.

Fixed blades do need sheaths IMHO but if sheaths are beyond your scope of interest just don't make'em or offer them with you knives. Some folks go this route and let the customer figure out getting a sheath. IMO you'll be severely limiting your potential customer base by going this route but it has been, and continues to be done.

My guess would be that your $200 knife will become a $175 knife without shoes but at least you didn't have to make a sheath. This sound bad but if profit margin is your real goal then think about it like this- Sheathmaking does take time. If you save a few hours on each knife by NOT making a sheath then each time you make 4 complete knives the fifth will be "time free" because you would've spent those 12 hours making sheaths for the previous 4 knives.

Using these numbers just for example purposes of course-
4 x $200 = $800
5 x $175 = $875

Now say for example you invested the time and money needed to learn sheath making so you could make your own sheath valued at say $75
4 x $275 = $1100
5 x $175 = $875

Of course my example here is a very basic theory. Things that come into play are Material costs and time. Ie- how long does it take to make the sheath -vs- how much time it takes to make the knife but the logic behind the numbers are sound from MY PERSONAL experience.

Going a bit deeper on the general subject of making knives and being "profitable" - Each maker has to determine their own level of interest. Is this a labor of love that your going to do forever ? Or a hobby that keeps you occupied and out of trouble ? Or anywhere in between.

Knowing where your headed will determine alot about what makes sense to do. As it pertains to sheathmaking getting a sewing machine like an Artisan will set you back a couple grand ! If your in it for the long term though it'll pay for itself over a year or two (or three, LOL) BUT I spend roughly half my sheathmaking time stitching or lacing so being able to do something in 5 minutes that currently takes 1 1/2 to 2 hours is a LARGE time savings as it would pertain to my production cost of making a sheath.

Being a Hobby maker won't be profitable for a LONG time. To be profitable you've got to cover all your expenses AND purchase the tools needed to increase profitablility. Roughly guestimating I'd say I'd need to work mayby 4 or 5 years at hobbyist production rate to reach a break even point. That's without buying any more tools (lmao, like that's gonna happen)

Thats my 2 cents Buddy.

PS, If you wanna try making a sheath I could probably scrape up a piece of leather and some thread and a needle to donate to your cause.

Take care, Josh
 
Thanks Josh. without trying to get into the whole "where I'm at" in the knife making scheme of things, I'll offer this explanation:

I make knives because it is something I have an interest in. I do not do it because I have to make a profit for each an every piece or "for a living". I have a day job that consumes most of my time, and knives are something I piddle with here and there on the side. I have learned that in order to compete with the big boys, I need excellent attention to detail, premium materials, and my heart and soul has to go in to my work. I can cover that. If what I've invested brings a return of enough money to take my family out to eat or something, that's great. What I never want to do is get to the point where I take orders, or get in the situation where I have to do what the market demands to survive. It isn't about that to me. I feel like that alone will kill my interest completely. If I make I knife that I really like and somebody else decides they want to buy it for themself, great. I'll let it go and start on another. Eventually. :lol:

My time is occupied enough with that. As Dave said, if I were to make a sheaths, it will be just to make a cover for the knife I've made, and I am not gonna do that. I don't do anything half way if I know better. In order to get in to making sheaths, I want to go all the way and give it my heart and soul. Honestly, I don't think I'm ready for that right now.
 
JS,

Boy do I understand about time ! LOL

Perfectly reasonable and not uncommon to be exactly where you are in reguards to sheathmaking.

Sounds like the best course of action is to GO FOR IT ! Make yourself a fixed blade and don't worry about the sheath at all. Once you've got it complete then seek advise as to which sheathmaker to use. Send it out and it comes back with shoes.

Keep in mind that as you progress and devolep a customer base, take orders, have knives sold BEFORE they are completed, etc a standard operating procedure would be to finish your knife, ship to sheathmaker, and sheathmaker will ship directly to your customer.

Going this route you cover the cost of the sheath and shipping in the sale price of your knife. You make nothing EXTRA on the sheath BUT it doesn't cost you anything EXTRA either. Your now in the fixed blade business with a high quality sheath.

This is pretty much common sense but is worthy of being mentioned when it comes time for the sheath-
Simple logic SHOULD determine the type and cost of the sheath. A $100 user grade knife goes in a basic, functional (cheap) sheath. Just as well a damascus knife with mammoth ivory and engraving goes in high end leather.

Matching the "level" of knife to the "level" of the sheath should give you the ability to use custom sheathmakers AND cover the expense of the sheath with increased value to your knife.

The sky's the limit !

Josh
 
I think Josh is right again (golly yer smart :) ). Keep making knives for the love of it when you darn well feel like it, and leave the sheaths to folks who love doing that part. Both the knife and the sheath will come out better that way and you won't be all stressed about it :thumbup:
 
Well, since I have been mentioned by name a couple of times in this thread, I'll share my experience.

There are several ways to go about this from the stand point of the knife maker. I have been involved on my end in all of them.

1. Make your knife and price it (knife only) and then be able to recommend a good sheath maker or two to your customer. You should have established at least a casual relationship with the sheath maker or sheath makers. This now becomes between the customer and the sheath maker and the customer can spend as much or as little as he wants with the recommended sheath maker.

I have many repeat customers who started with me as a result of their knife maker's recommendation.

2. Make your knife and price it up to include the cost of your sheath, and depending on the quality and reputation of your sheath maker, in many cases you can get a modest profit on the sheath as well, (most of my knife makers do). Send the knife to the sheath maker and then deliver the complete package to your customer. Turn around time of the sheath maker is also a consideration in this method. I strive for and almost always offer 48 hours or less turn around from receipt of the knife. This also has a positive impact on the knife maker's cash flow frequency.

3. Only offer knives for sale that have already had sheaths made and are ready to go as a package. I have countless feed back from knife makers that the custom sheath actually enhances the ease of sale of the knife when presented as a complete package. You can see this demonstrated on many tables at Blade this year.

If you do decide to make the sheaths yourself, invest in the proper tools and equipment and take time to apprentice with, or study the DVDs of a professional maker. As Josh said the seemingly high cost of tools and equipment will amortize itself rather rapidly. I deliver an average of 600 sheaths a year.....you do the math.

Finally, if you really don't enjoy or have a burning interest in leather work, save yourself some frustration and grief and don't even start.

In the meantime most of us that do leather work are here to help you all any way we can.

Paul
 
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Paul you summed it up in a way I never even thought . Price the knife and let the buyer deal with the sheath maker . Hmmmm I guess thats why you ship 600 sheaths a year wow darn lots of stitching . My fingers would be sore. Kellyw
 
For me, making the sheath is just as rewarding as the knife. At first I was not going to make sheaths but decided I better. I love working with leather and as with my knives I learn more with every sheath I make!!
 
Same here Ernie, sometimes I can't wait to get a knife done to the point I can make the sheath. Maybe why I'm doing more custom leather work these days than knives.
 
LOL,Cliff and Ernie, you two just gave me an idea for a new thread.Dave
 
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