Any good resources for accurizing shop equipment ?

[Black cat]

I make most of my shop equipment and it does the job but I would like to get a higher degree of accuracy.

Everything wobbles a bit. Belt grinder, wheel grinder, drill press, anything mounted on pillow block bearings, shafts, pulleys ect.

I have worked out a lot of the causes so far but it seems like a never ending list.

Flex in shafts, sloppy bearings, vibrations from long belts and pulleys, direct drive motor shafts that aren't tight, unbalanced wheels ect.

It has taken me countless hours that could be spent workong, just tracking down the sources of mystery wobbles.

I'm sure there must be a good guide/tutorial someplace for how to correct this sort of thing in each type of shop equipment but I can't seem to find anything.

I was hoping someone here might know of such a tutorial or perhaps if there isn't one we could make one ?

Shortening shafts, testing runout, wheel placement, balancing, selecting bearings and parts that are good (not sloppy) belt position, tension, ect.

I know you can make knives with just about any equipment but I feel that accuracy of your shop equipment makes a huge difference.

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

I almost didn't respond to this post, for fear of making you angry with my response, but I say what I'm about to, because years ago I was just like you in the respect that I built all my tools/equipment, simply because I not only did not have the kind of money these things cost, but more so because I just couldn't understand why something like a grinder was so expensive.

As time went by, and I was exposed to more and more shops of other knifemakers, I found myself amazed at how smooth, quiet, and accurate all of their "store bough" tools were. After having most of them tell me "when you pay the big bucks for XXXXXX, your paying for the precision", I began to think about all the time and effort I had put into trying to make my tools "right" (like you're talking about now). After purchasing my first commercially made grinder, I understood completely. Those guys were right on the money..... when you pay the premium prices for the best tools and tooling, you're paying, in part, for the trouble free precision they offer.

The way I view this sort of thing now is...... you can either spend all your time chasing, and trying to fix those aggravating problems, or bite the bullet, and spend the money on the proper tool(s), and spend your time making knives.

OK, that all being said, I doubt your going to find any one source that is going to give you solutions to all your issues/problems. My advice would be to get on google, and pick ONE ISSUE AT A TIME. While writing this reply, I hopped on google and typed in "how to fix a sloppy bearing" just to see what happened....... There are literally hundreds of pages dealing with that single issue. Its gona take a lot of your time, but that's sorta just the way it is when you're dealing with homemade equipment/tools.

Having been down the same road as you, my suggestion is to start replacing your current equipment with the better commercially available ones..... its not cheap, and if you're like me, its a LONG TERM thing, but if you're using a homemade grinder, and replace that with one of the premium machines, you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner right after you use it for the first time.

 

[scott.livesey]

I make most of my shop equipment and it does the job but I would like to get a higher degree of accuracy.
Everything wobbles a bit. Belt grinder, wheel grinder, drill press, anything mounted on pillow block bearings, shafts, pulleys ect.
Flex in shafts, sloppy bearings, vibrations from long belts and pulleys, direct drive motor shafts that aren't tight, unbalanced wheels ect.
I was hoping someone here might know of such a tutorial or perhaps if there isn't one we could make one ?
Shortening shafts, testing runout, wheel placement, balancing, selecting bearings and parts that are good (not sloppy) belt position, tension, ect..

not sure exactly what you are looking for. but some ideas. all drill presses have runout and vibrate, whether you spend $150 or $15000. for super accurate holes folks use a vertical mill. you can eliminate a lot of the vibration by having every thing level, having all fasteners tight, put the base of the drill press on rubber mat. for runout, use screw machine length drill bits when you can. if you need a super accurate hole, drill 1/64" undersized and finish the hole with a precision reamer.
for belt grinders, if you want to make your own, at least buy key pieces from known sources. Beaumont Metal Works, Wilmont Grinders, USA Knifemakers all carry precision wheels and bearings. my Wilmont LB1000 is mounted on a 2" thick hard maple slab that sits atop 1/2" of 60 duro rubber that sits on top of a 1 1/2" granite slab that sits on a work table that is bolted to the floor and walls.
really broad question, maybe this helped a bit. maybe post about one piece of equipment and we can walk thru whether it makes sense to fix it or get something new.
scott
ps the brand new $4000 Burr King belt grinder the company bought for the tool and die shop howled like an old dog and had numerous rattles and wobbles. took about a month of adjusting and fiddling to get rid of most of the issues.

 

[Black cat]

I almost didn't respond to this post, for fear of making you angry with my response, but I say what I'm about to, because years ago I was just like you in the respect that I built all my tools/equipment, simply because I not only did not have the kind of money these things cost, but more so because I just couldn't understand why something like a grinder was so expensive.

As time went by, and I was exposed to more and more shops of other knifemakers, I found myself amazed at how smooth, quiet, and accurate all of their "store bough" tools were. After having most of them tell me "when you pay the big bucks for XXXXXX, your paying for the precision", I began to think about all the time and effort I had put into trying to make my tools "right" (like you're talking about now). After purchasing my first commercially made grinder, I understood completely. Those guys were right on the money..... when you pay the premium prices for the best tools and tooling, you're paying, in part, for the trouble free precision they offer.

The way I view this sort of thing now is...... you can either spend all your time chasing, and trying to fix those aggravating problems, or bite the bullet, and spend the money on the proper tool(s), and spend your time making knives.

OK, that all being said, I doubt your going to find any one source that is going to give you solutions to all your issues/problems. My advice would be to get on google, and pick ONE ISSUE AT A TIME. While writing this reply, I hopped on google and typed in "how to fix a sloppy bearing" just to see what happened....... There are literally hundreds of pages dealing with that single issue. Its gona take a lot of your time, but that's sorta just the way it is when you're dealing with homemade equipment/tools.

Having been down the same road as you, my suggestion is to start replacing your current equipment with the better commercially available ones..... its not cheap, and if you're like me, its a LONG TERM thing, but if you're using a homemade grinder, and replace that with one of the premium machines, you'll be kicking yourself for not doing it sooner right after you use it for the first time.

No worries doesn't make me mad in any way! Actually I completely agree. I try to upgrade to better equipment as I go.
The stuff I have isn't terrible but I know it can be improved quite a bit. I've used really great equipment in the shops of other knife makers and I know what you mean, using that as a base for comparison there's no contest!

My belt grinder is a welded up home made monstrosity with random cheap parts. It gets the job done reasonably well but its a bit tempremental lol. On the other hand some of my factory made equipment is worse... My drill press wont drill a decent hole if my life depended on it.

I like the idea of using a reamer to finish the holes Scott! That could help with a lot of what I do.

I was mostly thinking of a genral trouble shooting guide but I think you're both right I should tackle one issue at a time.
(Between you and me and the entire forum lol... I tend to build my equipment because im a little obsessed with tinkering and figuring out how things work )

Google here I come!

Thanks

 

[scott.livesey]

there is lots of little stuff you can do to improve you machines, never seen them written down in a group. what follows was considered "best practices" at the forging plant i retired from.
Fasteners: always lube the threads Lok-tite if something permanent, anti-seize on everything else. bolts should always have washer and lock washer. thru holes should be as tight as possible, measure bolt add 1/64" then drill. on long thru bolts, put anti-seize in the thru hole to help prevent rust. when doing multi fastener mounting(like a motor or flange) criscross which bolts you tighten and tighten in 4 or 5 stages. use proper tools, an adjustable wrench is Never the proper tool for tightening. if you have metric fasteners, use the right size metric wrench or socket. if using socket head cap screws in a place where they could rust, fill head with RTV after tightening. in a situation where fasteners might loosen, once tight, mark the fastener, washer, and where mounted with perm marker or scratch awl or chisel so you can see at a glance if stuff is coming loose. DO NOT over torque.
just some quick thoughts. fasteners just one piece of the pie. if more will join in, maybe we can get enough stuff down to make a sticky.

 

[Drew Riley]

Ed has a good point. That said, even the store bought machines need maintaining and dialing in from time to time (though seemingly less than the home brew machines).
At the end of the day, a lot of it just comes down to experience and common sense. Much of the battle is just figuring out how to measure things like run out, alignment, trueness, etc.... That said, as you become proficient dialing in one kind of machine, jig, fixture, or what have you, you start to see how to translate that to other things.

The other bulk of it is just standard practice: Lubing moving/mating surfaces, keeping fasteners and joints tight, keeping things as square and true as possible, keeping tools clean and free from debris, changing consumable parts, etc...

Gravity and vibration are two major culprits to premature wear on many machines. How level a machine is, for instance, and have a large impact on accuracy and longevity.

As time goes on, you'll start looking at certain parts and tools and figuring out why they are built like they are, especially if you've already built one yourself.

Now, if you have a specific tool or process in mind, we can likely narrow down some specific practices, but as others have said, there's probably no single condensed resource.

 

[JPSWorks]

there is lots of little stuff you can do to improve you machines, never seen them written down in a group. what follows was considered "best practices" at the forging plant i retired from.
Fasteners: always lube the threads Lok-tite if something permanent, anti-seize on everything else. bolts should always have washer and lock washer. thru holes should be as tight as possible, measure bolt add 1/64" then drill. on long thru bolts, put anti-seize in the thru hole to help prevent rust. when doing multi fastener mounting(like a motor or flange) criscross which bolts you tighten and tighten in 4 or 5 stages. use proper tools, an adjustable wrench is Never the proper tool for tightening. if you have metric fasteners, use the right size metric wrench or socket. if using socket head cap screws in a place where they could rust, fill head with RTV after tightening. in a situation where fasteners might loosen, once tight, mark the fastener, washer, and where mounted with perm marker or scratch awl or chisel so you can see at a glance if stuff is coming loose. DO NOT over torque.
just some quick thoughts. fasteners just one piece of the pie. if more will join in, maybe we can get enough stuff down to make a sticky.

This is good info Scott, thank you.

John

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

 

[Black cat]

there is lots of little stuff you can do to improve you machines, never seen them written down in a group. what follows was considered "best practices" at the forging plant i retired from.
Fasteners: always lube the threads Lok-tite if something permanent, anti-seize on everything else. bolts should always have washer and lock washer. thru holes should be as tight as possible, measure bolt add 1/64" then drill. on long thru bolts, put anti-seize in the thru hole to help prevent rust. when doing multi fastener mounting(like a motor or flange) criscross which bolts you tighten and tighten in 4 or 5 stages. use proper tools, an adjustable wrench is Never the proper tool for tightening. if you have metric fasteners, use the right size metric wrench or socket. if using socket head cap screws in a place where they could rust, fill head with RTV after tightening. in a situation where fasteners might loosen, once tight, mark the fastener, washer, and where mounted with perm marker or scratch awl or chisel so you can see at a glance if stuff is coming loose. DO NOT over torque.
just some quick thoughts. fasteners just one piece of the pie. if more will join in, maybe we can get enough stuff down to make a sticky.

Thanks good info!