Anvil question

Josh Dabney

Josh Dabney

Moderator
I'm going to be needing an anvil soon and plan on building a Sea Robin inspired anvil.

My question is this-

Is there a point of diminishing returns as far as having mass directly under the hammer ?

Would a 4" square thats 24" tall be better (more efficient) than a 6" square thats 12" tall.

I'll be shooting for a 5" 4140 square bar and curious if going with an 18" or 24" long bar will be worth the extra expense.

Thanks guys, Josh
 
bigger is always better with anvils. Although you may just hit a spot that is 2" square the mass that is there helps you do the work. The more mass the more the anvil works for you.
 
Josh, once you figure the cost on this let me know. When I came across the Sea Robin anvil info. and found that Sea Robins Forge wasn't but about 75 miles away from me I got really excited. I contacted Mr. Robinson about purchasing an anvil. Wouldn't you know I was many days and dollars short. He had sold his last anvil a few months prior.
 
Murph,

I too was bummed to discover that Mr Robinson was no longer making these anvils. Thanks to Mike Barton I got to forge my first blade on his 90 pound (single billet) Sea Robin. It seemed to work just fine but I really have no basis for comparison. The thing I really loved the most was the noise. The Sea Robin just made a "thunk" while the blacksmith style anvil in use by someone else was ringing a tune, LOL.

I've been searching online to find a distributor of a suitable size of 4140. I've got some numbers to call of industrial steel suppliers so I'll let you know what I find.

Due to price I may end up finding whatever I can find (mild steel) of suitable size and weld on a face then HT. I like the idea of having a solid piece but getting the steel for scrap price would save alotta $$$$$.

If anyone knows of a source for 5"-6" 4140 square cut to length let me know.

-Josh
 
Well I have found a place that has 5 & 6" squares.

5" x 24" = $684
6" x 24" = $890

Plus appox. $120 shipping.

$ 342 for a Sea Robin single billet size doesn't seem all that bad but I'll be checking the scrap yards before I make any quick decisions, LOL.

-Josh
 
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Josh Dabney said:
Well I have found a place that has 5 & 6" squares.

5" x 24" = $684
6" x 24" = $890

Plus appox. $120 shipping.

$ 342 for a Sea Robin single billet size doesn't seem all that bad but I'll be checking the scrap yards before I make any quick decisions, LOL.

-Josh
Click to expand...

Before I spent that amount of money on a chunk of steel I'd make sure it wasn't a Toyota. 2thumbs There's got to be a better deal out there on an real anvil. I'm assuming my two anvils have appreciated some now.
 
Ray.

Yeah $4 something a pound is a bit much for raw material huh, LOL

I've got another guy getting me a quote who is local so no shipping.

Scrap price with a weld on face will probably be the way to go.

There's also a Catapillar heavy equipment dealer local so I'm gonna give them a call and see if they've got any broken or wore out parts that have some mass to them.

I'm just price checking at this point and haven't even checked the local scrap/recycle yards yet.

Thanks for your input, Josh
 
Here's an anvil my good friend Wayne Goddard gave me several years ago. He asked if I wanted it or he was going to take it to a scrape yard and cash it in. The anvil face is a fork lift blade that was welded together and the rest of the steel was added to give it more mass. I ended up giving to another friend that had just gotten interested in forging and he's been using the heck out of it and likes it. I didn't care for it mainly because of the noise it produced. Wayne's soul purpose in making it was to prove you really don't need a real anvil to forge blades on. Wayne called it a post anvil. I called it a pile anvil. :D Wayne said it weighted 285 pounds. I added the heavy piece of pipe so I'm guess it gained another 15 pounds. The round pipe was used for drifting hawks. I'd suggest just getting a 6 X 6 chunk or steel. Building a form out of plywood and then pour concrete in it and set the chuck of steel in the concrete before I paid that huge of amount of money on one of those big chunks of steel.

PDRM0075.JPG
 
I think a lot of the 'good' part of the Sea Robin anvil is the heat treat. If you weren't aware of it, Chuck's video is worth getting to explain the process. Not necessarily easy, but seems to be very worth doing (heat treat).

A good strategy to try with a post type anvil is to cinch it down very tightly to a heavy, dense base. I made a base for my Sea Robin double billet and I would have a very tough time trading the rebound and feel for another anvil.

Good luck at the scrap yard, Craig
 
You can get a new EuroAnvil www.euroanvils.com for less than $4.00 a pound. I advise anyone to buy one of their anvils. I have a 500# and a 119# for demonstrations. Of course I am a blacksmith. I saw Don Fogg demonstrate on one of the Sea Robin type anvils and he really praised it. I think that you can do anything on a European or English anvil that you can do on the Sea Robin type and a lot more. When forging knives, or doing any other type forging, I use the horn when drawing, etc. There are lots of things that need to be done that need other than a square surface. Of course, I am a blacksmith and do lots of things other than shape blades and I have never used a Sea Robin type.

I am not trying to belittle the Sea Robin type, just giving some information.
 
Hey Josh,

I'm probably going to tweak some of the anvil purest, but here goes anyway.

The majority of the anvils mass it just that...mass. The first 1 or 2 inches of an anvils face is what is important. After that it is pretty much mass for rebound. I don't know how hard you can swing a hammer, but I know for fact that I can't bend a cold piece of 2" steel with a 6 pound hammer no matter how hard I try. Heat treated or not. Only dents.

When I build my next one, it's going to be a good piece of 2" or so that's heat treated and welded to a ASO (anvil shaped object) to provide the rest of the mass.

I knew a farrier that had a 1" piece of heat treated plate welded to a small anvil he used out of his truck and it rang like a bell when he hit it.

Figure if 1" is good, 2" will be better. And it should be a lot easier to find material that size in a scrap yard some where. I hope. LOL

Maybe one of you blade smiths has tried it and can chime in. Pun intended. :~)
 
cdent said:
I think a lot of the 'good' part of the Sea Robin anvil is the heat treat. If you weren't aware of it, Chuck's video is worth getting to explain the process. Not necessarily easy, but seems to be very worth doing (heat treat).
Craig
Click to expand...

Craig, You are right on about the heat treat of the anvil face. The post anvil in the photo I attached was not heat treated. Rebound with a ball bearing was 50% at best plus it varied considerable from place to place. I do think the rebound will get better with use simply from work hardening but that may take a long time.

As for normal forging I use a 6 pound hammer for at least 50% of the actual forging of a blade. I find it almost without effort using my 150 pound Trenton. I did notice how fast my arm got fatigued using the post anvil.
 
Thanks for all the input guys !

A friend from here on the forum has offered me a free piece of forklift fork so if needed I do have access to a free, hardeneable face.

I'm just trying to check all the options at this point.

I do live in a deed restricted community so keeping noise to a minimum is priority at this point. This is one of the main reasons I'd like to avoid going with a traditional blacksmiths anvil or a "Pile Anvil". I figure the less pieces to vibrate the better chance of keeping the ring to a minimum.

Also, My plan for hardening is to block the steel up in my Evenheat with the door open and stack fire bricks around (or wool depending on the amount of space) and quech in a 5 gallon pail of oil. I think this should harden the face deep enough for a sevicable anvil.

Once I see what my options are I may end up just buying an anvil. I'll have to save up for it but I really don't mind investing in quality tools that will last.

Thanks again for your suggestions guys !

-Josh
 
Noise Issue: In November I worked on an Acme anvil which was made by Trenton. As I said on another thread, “Trenton Anvils Ring Like a Bell”. This one did too. After grinding the edges I made a three legged stand using angle iron and a ½” plate. I then set the anvil on the stand to demonstrate how it would ring. I then seated the anvil is a good heavy bead of adhesive caulk. Then the anvil just said, “Thunk”. Also caulking the anvil to the stand makes it all one piece and therefore the weight of the stand is added to the mass of the anvil. I have two EuroAnvils www.euroanvils.com which are cast steel anvils. Cast steel anvils are notorious for ringing also. Both of these anvils (a 500# and a 119#) are treated and now do not ring.
You can also keep your neighbors from complaining by making them a “J” hook or something. That way they see that you are not just over there making noise and you become the “nice guy that gave me this.” Just don’t make the noise after bed time or before breakfast.
 
Wayne,

Thanks for mentioning "deadening" the ring of the anvil. That's something I had not considered.

I have also had the thought of saving all my pennies from now till may and either picking up an anvil from riverside machine while attending the intro class in texarkana or picking one up at the blade show.

I remember seeing someone with anvils for sale last year at the show. Anyone know who it was ?

Alotta neighbors walk around the block so I've had quite a few stop by to ask "what are you making in here " ? When I say Knives they say, Really... Thats so cool. LOL.

We are friendly with the neighbors immediately surrounding us so it may not even be a big deal just trying to be neighborly.

-Josh
 
Josh,
You can buy a brand new blacksmith anvil in the 100-125 lb range for about $500-600 from a farrier or blacksmith supply - there are several in Florida. Yes, you can forge a blade on a square 5-6" anvil face but not much else. My JHM has turning studs, pritchel hole, hardy hole (hot cutting...) and a horn. If you have any heavy drawing to do, you'll learn to love that horn. If you want to straighten a longer piece of steel, you'll appreciate the long anvil face. Mount a 100-125 lb anvil on some timbers and you'll have a nice setup. Maybe it's just me, but if you're only going to own one anvil, or ever get the itch to do some artistic forging, maybe versatility is a desirable attribute. As to the ringing that you find objectionable (Yeah,that was my anvil - hang a weighted leather strap over the horn when you're not using it. Actually, if you're using the sweet spot and not hitting cold steel, ringing should be minimal to non-existant. The old time smiths would say that you'll go to hell for hammering cold steel...for that and not charging enough money.
You should never strike the bare face of your anvil with a hammer (like on TV) - this will make it ring loudly and possibly damage either the anvil or the hammer.
Search for blacksmith and farrier suppliers - there's one a couple miles from my house and go check out some anvils. You might also find somebody upgrading that's willing to sell you a used anvil. Good luck!

Just checked Craigslist and the farrier supply by my house has a sale on some pretty nice anvils in the 100-125 lb range

TFS Farriers Anvil, 125 lb, list = $637, cash price = $445.90 plus tax
Delta Future 1 Farriers Anvil 89 lb, list = $595, cash price = $416.50 plus tax
TFS Blacksmiths Anvil 100 lb, list = $525, cash price = $367.50 plus tax
NC Big Face 3 - 67 lb, list = $327, cash price = $228.90 plus tax
 
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I first tried construction adhesive on 120 pound Swedish Made anvil in the summer of 2005. That's all that held the anvil in place till I was unloading it after doing the forging demo at Blade West in 2007 and it finally came off after I'd tipped it over while getting it off my truck by myself. Its cheaper than the silicone caulking and holds even better. Just make sure you let it cure for a few days. I use it on both my anvils and since I stopped doing the demo's because of my back I think it will last until I hang up my hammers. Best ring killer I have run across and I have tried most the other fixes.
 
Josh,

I trolled Craigslist daily for a couple of months before I found my anvil. It's a 100 lb. Vulcan, for which I paid $100. It took some patience and diligence wading through the $3-4/lb anvils before finding this one, but it was worth the time and something to consider if you haven't already tried.

Vulcans, from what I've read, are not top tier anvils, but decent quality and plenty good for forging blades. It also doesn't ring as much as some (better ones?) do...
 
Thanks again guys,

Todd,

I just ran across that craigslist add via google search.

I was thinking the TFS 125# May be a good way to go. Plus no shipping.

The versatility would be good to have.


Anyone used the TFS anvils ?

Thanks again guys ! Josh
 
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