Air over Hydraulic press question...

[McClellan Made Blades]

Hey guys,
I have been seeing these "Air/(over)Hydraulic Presses" in several places, one in particular is from Harbor Freight, can this type of press be used in forging? With the air assist, it does most of the work, hoping this will be a way for me to work down bigger stock, at a reasonable price, any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rex

 

[Patrick]

Rex,
This is from another forum but has great info. I've had all the materials to make one for months and made a resolution(first ever) to get this press finished. The only cash outlay was for the 20 ton air/hydraulic press bought on ebay and the cost of having a local welding shop cut some of the steel up for me. It'll cost me a venison dinner and a few beers for a friend to weld it up right for me. I can weld but I want it done right as it has to withstand lotsa pressure. I'm also trying to figure out a die for making homemade micarta. Good luck.

http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=9932

Pat

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

Rex,
This is from another forum but has great info. I've had all the materials to make one for months and made a resolution(first ever) to get this press finished. The only cash outlay was for the 20 ton air/hydraulic press bought on ebay and the cost of having a local welding shop cut some of the steel up for me. It'll cost me a venison dinner and a few beers for a friend to weld it up right for me. I can weld but I want it done right as it has to withstand lotsa pressure. I'm also trying to figure out a die for making homemade micarta. Good luck.

http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=9932

Pat

Thanks for the response, there is some very good info there. But my original question is still the same, I can get a 10 ton air over hydraulic press for around 200.00, maybe less. Plus the compressor which I've been planning on buying anyway. I want to experiment with some small batches of Damascus, for fun. I'm not planning on making it for everyone, except for special occasions. I also want to be able to experiment with different types of dies, in my general knife making. I also want to experiment with bonding a piece of great steel into softer steel, where the great steel is the edge and the softer steel is the spine. Just some of the stuff I want to piddle with, not sure if it'll be integrated into my knives, not saying it won't be either. But the biggest part is to be able to work big round or square stock down to a forgable size without needing an arm replacement. Experimenting with Damascus is exciting,
I've seen some of the experiments that Dr. Jim Hrisoulas has done, which I know he is more qualified to do, that turned out exceptional. What I'm understanding is that the press I choose needs to respond immediately upon pressing, and release. Is 10 tons big enough to mash 2 1/2 " to 3" stock? Keeping in mind if I decide to work bigger stock I'll will get a stronger press. I'm thinking this one would work because if I don't like doing it, the cash out lay will not be huge, and it would still be useful in making folders. If I was to build it, the time and effort involved would make me feel like I had to produce with it. Not to mention I don't care too much about building tools, some maybe once in a while, but I have to really want to. I'd rather be making knives than just about anything else. Not to mention I tend to overbuild everything, which would make the press I build too big, too strong, too heavy, too everything. Plus those type projects usually get done when I have to have it, this being more for playing, it would never be completed.
Thanks Dogs, You're the GREATEST!
Rex

 

[Patrick]

Go with the 20 ton press. It is the minimum for this kind of work. No 10 ton press is gonna mash 2 1/2" stock. These mini presses are for working smaller stuff. They aren't for huge billets. They're for small stuff.

The 20 ton air/hydraulc press can be bought for under $100 at Harbor Freight or on ebay. With ebay you pay shipping but it's shipped right to you.

Pat

 

[Fred Rowe]

I would want at least 20 tons, 25 even better. I use a R Claiborne 25 ton.

If you would be satisfied with working smaller stock it might be all right.

Bigger is always better, isn't it?

Good luck with your search, Fred

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

Go with the 20 ton press. It is the minimum for this kind of work. No 10 ton press is gonna mash 2 1/2" stock. These mini presses are for working smaller stuff. They aren't for huge billets. They're for small stuff.

The 20 ton air/hydraulc press can be bought for under $100 at Harbor Freight or on ebay. With ebay you pay shipping but it's shipped right to you.

Pat

Thanks Pat,
That's what I figured, I had hoped that the 10 ton would be enough, if it wasn't for several other things I'm working on, I'd go for the 50 ton right off the bat! But at almost 700.00 smackers!!! It's just not in the budget right now, besides, I'm just piddling, and hopefully I can learn to make some nice Damascus and maybe some Mocume (sp), and of course I will try my best to get some of Don Hanson W-2. As well as a lot of other stuff, that will need to be mashed! Plus, when I work my way into folders it'll be a big help there too. The 20 ton from Harbor Freight is 259.00, that's the one I was leaning toward as the 35 ton is almost 500.00. I think the air over hydraulic is the best way to go, I know if you skip the air it's a lot cheaper, but being able to push a button and do the mashing will allow me to keep more heat in the billet. I do appreciate the input, I wasn't sure which would be the right one that would do what I want it to do. Thanks so much, Rex

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

I would want at least 20 tons, 25 even better. I use a R Claiborne 25 ton.

If you would be satisfied with working smaller stock it might be all right.

Bigger is always better, isn't it?

Good luck with your search, Fred

I would LOVE a Claiborne press!!!!! I've looked at his presses several times, they are extremely nice. But way out of my budget. Working with smaller stock right now is exactly what I want to do, if I can, successfully, make some nice Damascus, I think I would feel better about attempting to make a knife out of it, if I went and spent 200 bucks for a billet and screwed it up I would be physically sick, you should have seen me after I messed up a 25 dollar set of Desert Iron Wood slabs, didn't puke, but I was close! Not to mention the process of making Damascus is so interesting, it just looks fun. I agree bigger is better in most cases, and if I could get the 50 ton press I wouldn't hesitate, but I've got a few other projects going that will need to be funded. It seems I'm not happy unless I running 200 mph with my hair on fire, and staying busy is the best therapy for me. If I get into it and can make some nice stuff that people want to buy, I'll decide to upgrade then.
Thanks for the help Fred, the 20 ton is the one I'm going with, I'll let you all know how it turns out, Rex

 

[ctp13]

Pres

Hi I built one based on plans found on IForge Woorks well could be faster but everything is a comprimise.

I forged these knives out of 1x1 1085

Cost under 220 $89 for HF 20 ton + $93 for steel cut to size. and some bits I had around the shop.

Chuck

 

[JAWilliams]

Hi I built one based on plans found on IForge Woorks well could be faster but everything is a comprimise.

I forged these knives out of 1x1 1085

Cost under 220 $89 for HF 20 ton + $93 for steel cut to size. and some bits I had around the shop.

Chuck

If you look in the tutorial forum there is a link to this. The one thing I would change is finding a foot pedal that will release air also. I think it would be faster. As in step on it one way it opens the valve and starts moving up. Step on it the other way and it releases the air.

 

[ctp13]

If you look in the tutorial forum there is a link to this. The one thing I would change is finding a foot pedal that will release air also. I think it would be faster. As in step on it one way it opens the valve and starts moving up. Step on it the other way and it releases the air.

I have found that I just run the air wide open and use the hydraulic release screw to regulate the ram and I can get 7-8 squeezes in in a heat on 3/4 stock On the 1" Tool steel I could get 4 sort of .

I may be wrong on the air But I found this way was much faster and more convenient

Chuck

 

[Patrick]

Nice job on yoour press ctp13! I have mine all cut out but it is a little bigger. Was thinking of taking pics when I get the chance to put ot together.

Rex are you talking about purchasing the whole rig from harbor freight? 20 ton a/h jack and press? Might have to beef it up a bit

 

[Delbert Ealy]

If you buy a ready made press from HF or another outfit you may be dissappointed, these presses are not built for speed and speed is necessary for the steel to stay hot enough to forge. I have seen some custom built air over hydraulic presses that work just fine. The important thing to remember about presses and tonnage numbers is that any number quoted is in tonnes per square inch. If your dies are 2" x 3" than if you forge steel with the full die than you are using, and if your press is 20 ton, then you are using 3.33 tonnes of effective force. So a 5 ton press with a 1" square die will yield more effective force than the 20 ton with the 2" x 3" dies.

Also, a press is not the most effective tool for forging mokume. It will work if you are very skilled with it, but you may again be disappointed if you try.

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

This has been the only one that I've found that might work that is priced right. if I have to beef it up, I'm pretty sure I can. Thanks for the input, Rex

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

If you buy a ready made press from HF or another outfit you may be dissappointed, these presses are not built for speed and speed is necessary for the steel to stay hot enough to forge. I have seen some custom built air over hydraulic presses that work just fine. The important thing to remember about presses and tonnage numbers is that any number quoted is in tonnes per square inch. If your dies are 2" x 3" than if you forge steel with the full die than you are using, and if your press is 20 ton, then you are using 3.33 tonnes of effective force. So a 5 ton press with a 1" square die will yield more effective force than the 20 ton with the 2" x 3" dies.

Also, a press is not the most effective tool for forging mokume. It will work if you are very skilled with it, but you may again be disappointed if you try.

DANG DEL! Aint you just a bubble buster!!!! And I appreciate you posting to this thread, from everything I'm learning it will be best for me to either save up for a power hammer, or build the right kind of press. What the heck, maybe I'll do both, a power hammer is definitely in the future, but I thought it might be the distant future more than the near future.

Del, can you explain the right type of press I need? Does it need to be straight hydraulic? Looking forward to hearing back from you. Also, any tutorials would be helpful and thanks,Rex

BTW, Del I check out your Damascus every time you post some for sell, I'm a bit apprehensive about attempting to make a knife out of it, as I'm a new maker, and I ruin a lot of good steel...still. You make some beautiful Damascus! Maybe one day, I'll take the plunge and buy some of yours, before I learn how to make it.

 

[Delbert Ealy]

Here is the knid of press you want to get
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVgD8GiAXCU&feature=related"]YouTube- Claiborne Damascus Press[/ame]

Here is an air over hydraulic that isn't too bad, but look at how much the steel cool compared to the first press
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwZ-GYUZZEY"]YouTube- Mini hydraulic forging press[/ame]