A few forging questions

J

JDW

Well-Known Member
I have bought a small coal forge, with a hand crank Buffalo Forge blower, and I guess I will try to forge some blades soon. My questions are, what is a good size of round stock to start with, to make small blades say 1/8" thick and 1-1/2" wide? Also what about a flat stock size for the same blade size?
Enco has oil hardening and water hardening steel in rounds in various sizes, would this stuff make a good blade? They don't list any specs for it that I can find, and it is cheap. I am sure that I will have more questions when I actualy get into trying to forge a blade. I hope this is not going to be another knife addiction:D
Dale
 
I wouldn't recommend choosing cheap knife steel. Be sure you are getting it from a reputable supplier who is giving you all of the data you need to do successfull heat treat. I would highly encourage checking with Aldo Bruno before ordering forging steel. Some of the experienced smiths will chime in and give advice on the size you need to order to fit your needs.
 
Thanks Murph, I was wondering about the quality of the Enco stuff. I will check with Aldo for some 1084.
Dale
 
For that size blade 5/8" or 3/4" round should suffice just fine. Use a large radius cross peen with rounded corners to spread the metal sideways initially to get the width you desire. Happy forging!
-Rob
 
Thanks Rob, for the info. I am looking forward to getting the time to try my hand at forging.
 
Murph is right. After all the work you'll put in it you want to know its good steel.
Ed Caffery has a great video on basic forgeing. You'll use it over and over. Alot of good info.
 
If you're wanting to jump into forging, go check out the hammer-in over in Branson next weekend. I'm not sure who the demonstrators are, but I find the hammer-ins to be extremely informative. You may even be able to pick up some quality steel while you are there.
 
Thanks Murph, I wish that I could go, but I am tied up next weekend, and that is only 120 miles or so from home.:(
 
A.Sharpe said:
Murph is right. After all the work you'll put in it you want to know its good steel.
Ed Caffery has a great video on basic forgeing. You'll use it over and over. Alot of good info.
Click to expand...

Second that. Ed's video really jump started my forging. I had done a lot of bashing trying to make blades, but the light bulb came on when I watched that vid.

Dave
 
The steel you are refering to from ENCO is o- 1 and w-1 . If I were gonna forge blades out of it I would definitley go with the w-1 .
 
Chad Nichols said:
The steel you are refering to from ENCO is o- 1 and w-1 .
If I were gonna forge blades out of it I would definitely go with the w-1 .
Click to expand...


I agree
"water hardening drill rod" = W1

and with respect to what size round is appropriate.
calculate the area of the circle and then convert it to a rectangle

ie 3/4 round

pi r squared
=3.14 * (1/2 (3/4)) Sq
=3.14 * ( 3/8 * 3/8 )
= .4415625 square inches

.4415625 square inches
.4416 / .25 =
= 1.75

so 3/4 round gives you:
1/4 x 1 3/4 bar
or
3/16 x 2.25

and so on , make yourself a chart...

1/2 round is just about 1/8 by 1.5"
assuming your scale losses are fairly low and you can forge close to a good finish.
 
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Thanks Chad, and Sam. How does the W1 work for forging, and is it prone to cracking with a water quench, as much as 1095? If so can it be quenched in oil and get full hardness? The size calculator formula will be helpful. I need to get Eds video, been bashing around and need to have that light bulb go off, will post pics of first attemp, if you dogs promise not to laugh to loud, like my shop dog did.
Dale
 
JDW said:
How does the W1 work for forging, and is it prone to cracking with a water quench, as much as 1095?

If so can it be quenched in oil and get full hardness?
Click to expand...

Dale

The terms water hardening and oil hardening are pretty generic terms that refer to the typical use in industry using big pieces of steel.

Knife making uses are a bit special and the very thin sections of water hardening steel can be quenched in "fast oil" to achieve full hardness with less risk of cracking.

Don Hansons WICKED hammons are acheived with his W@ and Parks 50

"Fast oil" includes Parks #50, and other fast quench oils

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=53085
Park #50: For shallow hardening steel. This is a light amber colored oil with very little smell (kind of smells like a light machinists oil), with an incredibly low viscosity that makes it barely feel like oil to the touch. It forms very little vapor, and parts can be easily observed below its surface in every phase of the quench. This is the fastest quench oil I have worked with and has no problem through hardening water hardening steel in ¼” sections or less. It cools very evenly resulting in a very low distortion rate. It is not advisable to flash this oil if it can be avoided, as I have found it to “soot up” and lose some of its quality if one lets it flame. Edge quenching or partially submerged, overheated steel can accomplish it though.

Here is some information provided by Park (Heat Bath):

#50 QUENCH OIL Low viscosity quench oil that approaches water in quench speed, yet gives a more uniform, less severe quench than water. Recommended for open quench system operating below 120 deg F.

Where to get it : Heat Bath/ Park Metallurgical
http://www.heatbath.com/Products-link-page.htm
 
12345678910 said:
Dale

The terms water hardening and oil hardening are pretty generic terms that refer to the typical use in industry using big pieces of steel.

Knife making uses are a bit special and the very thin sections of water hardening steel can be quenched in "fast oil" to achieve full hardness with less risk of cracking.

Don Hansons WICKED hammons are acheived with his W@ and Parks 50

"Fast oil" includes Parks #50, and other fast quench oils

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=53085
Park #50: For shallow hardening steel. This is a light amber colored oil with very little smell (kind of smells like a light machinists oil), with an incredibly low viscosity that makes it barely feel like oil to the touch. It forms very little vapor, and parts can be easily observed below its surface in every phase of the quench. This is the fastest quench oil I have worked with and has no problem through hardening water hardening steel in ¼” sections or less. It cools very evenly resulting in a very low distortion rate. It is not advisable to flash this oil if it can be avoided, as I have found it to “soot up” and lose some of its quality if one lets it flame. Edge quenching or partially submerged, overheated steel can accomplish it though.

Here is some information provided by Park (Heat Bath):

#50 QUENCH OIL Low viscosity quench oil that approaches water in quench speed, yet gives a more uniform, less severe quench than water. Recommended for open quench system operating below 120 deg F.

Where to get it : Heat Bath/ Park Metallurgical
http://www.heatbath.com/Products-link-page.htm
Click to expand...

The linked to thread is a very old one, it is worth letting people know that if they try to contact Heat Bath/ Park metallurgical directly to buy their oils, they will be turned away. Heat Bath/Park Metallurgical does not care to do business with knifemakers or anybody smaller than a major corporation who is already on their client list. Those looking for a quenchant maker who is also interested in being a business who actually sells their product should contact Houghton International instead, they are much bigger and feel knifemakers money is just as good as anybody else's;).
 
...that's why I used the
"and other fast quench oils"
I assumed he would read the whole tread and suss that out
Pointed in the right direction, let him go sniff out the rest on his own...

Kevin

I like that availability of Houghton products, but strictly in terms of Hamon, I have yet to see anyone show me results that the Houghton K is as good as Parks #50.

Can you point me towards anything on that?
As far as in can tell, the ones that do that are happy with the results they are getting and not going to test anything else unless they have to..
 
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