80crv2/1080+

Discussion in 'Knife Steel Reference' started by Darrin Sanders, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. Darrin Sanders

    Darrin Sanders Moderator

    Carbon-0.82
    Chromium-0.60
    Manganese-0.42
    Phosphorus-0.04
    Silicon-0.22
    Sulfur-0.05
    Vanadium-0.20

    This is an oil hardening steel. It has very good toughness and holds a good edge. The Chromium and Vanadium makes a soak at a controlled temp. necessary to get the most from this steel.

    Here is the reccomended heat treat process;
    1. Heat to 1545-1615 and soak for 5 minutes.
    2. Oil quench.
    3. Temper twice for 2 hours each time. Temper between 300 & 500 depending on application.

    I would be very interested in hearing from people who have actually used this steel. I would like to hear testing results, thoughts on hardening temps. & times, & reccomendations for Normalizing & thermal cycling.
     
  2. scott.livesey

    scott.livesey Dealer - Purveyor

    I have made about 20 blades using 1080+. I heated the blades to 800C (easier to read on analog pyrometer), 5 minute soak at temperature, quench in warm(about 100F) oil. clean. short temper(30 minutes) at 300F. Scrub in cold water to remove all scale. temper at 375F. this yielded Rc 61-62 in a 5 point check. When hard, it grinds and sharpens similar to aldo's 1084 or O1 with same Rc. Has good edge retention for my uses which is paring knives and cleavers.
    check here for more notes and sources. http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?34557-80Crv2-and-AlphaKnifeSupply-1080
    the old sailor
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2013
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  3. Darrin Sanders

    Darrin Sanders Moderator

    Thanks Scott, I had forgotten that you had already posted all that. This stuff all starts to run together after a while. LOL
     
  4. quint

    quint Active Member

    What HRC are you guys getting with this stuff pre temper. Just curious to see where I am at with this steel.
     
  5. scott.livesey

    scott.livesey Dealer - Purveyor

    I don't know, as I have to take blade to the office to do Rc check. Best guess would be Rc63-65. I will do some small sample pieces next time I heat treat and see what I am getting pre temper
     
  6. J. Doyle

    J. Doyle Dealer - Purveyor

    I don't know what mine are either as I don't have an Rc tester. But I'd say that they are SCREAMING SCARY hard!
     
  7. quint

    quint Active Member

    Ok well thats good then. I did a blade today. Kind of treated it like I do 52100 and quenched in warm canola. As quenched was right at 66hrc. I think thats pretty good. Tested it several times.
     
  8. Darrin Sanders

    Darrin Sanders Moderator

    I'm thinking that HRC-66 as quenched should be just about max.. If you can get it that hard consistently you should be fine. I've heard that this stuff is tough even when untempered and is crazy tough when left as hard as 62-63. I haven't tried any but will be doing so soon.
     
  9. scott.livesey

    scott.livesey Dealer - Purveyor

    the steel is used in europe for wood band saw blades, carbon steel circular saw blades, saw blade body for carbide tipped blades, softer half of bi-metal blades, wood processing blades, paper processing blades, tobacco processing blades. is it my imagination or does BLADE keep coming up in common commercial uses? I did some test blades with two 1/2 hour tempers at 350F, with cold water quench in the middle. Rc62-63 and have had no issue with blade performance.

    tho old sailor
     
  10. quint

    quint Active Member

    Wanted to add that the lauri blades that you can get are also 80crv2 from what I have read. There differential heated ones have an edge at 62HRC. Pretty nice blades.
     
  11. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    I know this is an old thread, but I purchased a couple bars of 80CrV2 steel and looking for HT info. Found conflicting info. Some (AKS) and Darrin in this thread have quench temperature at 1545⁰F-1615⁰F and seems a max hardness around 65 or so Rc. Several other sources have said this type of steel should never be quenched over 1500 or so. I found this datasheet: http://www.ccsteels.com/Tool_steel/160.html (shown pasted in below) which states quench temp should be 1472 to 1524⁰F giving a max hardness of 63 Rc.

    Darrin, Scott, and any others - would ya'll care to comment on this please.

    Thanks for all suggestions and guidance,

    Ken H>

    **************************

    DIN 80CrV2 / W-Nr 1.2235 - DATA SHEET


    MATERIAL CATEGORY: Cold work alloy tool steel

    TYPICAL APPLICATIONS
    Alloy tool steel
    is widely used to produce the cutting tool, cold/heat distortion mould and measuring implements,
    and further to manufacture the piston, valve, valve seat of fuel pump of diesel engine.
    Cutting tools
    Mechanical parts
    Air hammer tools
    Piercing tools

    PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
    The alloy is usually produced by EAF /VD /LF followed by electroslag refining (ESR) if necessary for special purpose.
    Bars and, where applicable, forgings are subjected to ultrasonic examination based on the different level according to the buyers' requirements.
    Bars are usually supplied bright in the softened condition.
    Final heat treatment - heat treatment / QT

    MATERIAL SPECIFICATIONS
    EN ISO 4957: 2000 , DIN 17350 (1980)

    AVAILABLE SHAPES
    Black bar /Flat bar /Square bar
    Bright - peeled + polishing /centerless grinding / peeled + slidabrading
    Forged - ring /tube /pipe casing /discs /shaft
    CHEMICAL COMPOSITION (WEIGHT %) - DIN 80CrV2 / W-Nr 1.2235
    C(%): 0.75~0.85
    Si(%): 0.25~0.40
    Mn(%): 0.30~0.50
    P(%)≤: 0.030
    S(%)≤: 0.030
    Cr(%): 0.40~0.70
    Mo(%): —
    V(%): 0.15~0.25
    Other(%): —

    MECHANICAL PROPERTIES - HOT WORKING, HEAT TREATMENT AND HARDNESS
    Hot working tenperature /℃: 1050~800
    Annealing temperature /℃: 680~710
    Hardness after annealing ≤HBW: 250
    Quenching temperature /℃: 800~830
    Cooling medium: oil
    Common tempering temperature /℃: 180~300
    Hardness after tempering at temperature HRC|100℃: 63
    Hardness after tempering at temperature HRC|200℃: 60
    Hardness after tempering at temperature HRC|300℃: 55
    Hardness after tempering at temperature HRC|400℃: 50
     
  12. samuraistuart

    samuraistuart Well-Known Member

    There simply is no reason to austenitize that steel any hotter than around the 1525F mark. There isn't enough alloying bonded with that carbon requiring such a high heat to break it free. Now how heavily spheroidized the steel is when you harden will add more need for a higher aus heat, but that brings it's own problems, and is best handled with a normalizing/cycling routine prior to hardening. If it comes from Chuck at AKS, all his steels are said to be fine spheroidized and ready to harden as received....so no need for high heats OR normalizing (if just stock removal). Just because a "data sheet" says 63, I take that with a grain of salt. 52100 can be taken to 67+ with a little coaxing, while the data sheets usually will stop at 65. The "data sheets" for heat treating 52100 are almost always for ball bearings, and give HT data to HT ball bearings....not cutting tools. Carbon in solution is always about temp first, but also time. Lower temps, more time. Higher temps, less time. Notice they don't indicate what oil they're using to quench with these data sheets.
    A2 has such a high aus heat because that carbon is tied up in Cr carbides and must be freed with that high heat, while 1080+has such little alloying in it (and eutectoid carbon %), there simply is no need to go hotter than eutectoid aus temps (1500-1525) for max HRC, of 65 or slightly higher. I'm getting that easily with short soaks at 1525F and P50 quenches. My temper temps are much higher than the data sheets say, because my as quenched HRC is higher. It's been a while, but I was doing 400F for kitchen slicers that still wouldn't allow a file to scratch them. Chromium doesn't begin to go into solution until 1650F, and there is only a touch of it in the steel, so I'm not sure why the AKS data sheets show such a high aus heat....not sure what they're trying to accomplish with that particular aus heat.
     
  13. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    That's sorta why I made the post, why should high temps listed in 80CrV2 datasheet, which I'm sure is what Chuck of AKS was doing, just posting the datasheet info on HT'ing showing a lower temperature, and what I considered more reasonable quench temperature. Just seems that 1615 is too high. Scott has great luck with his 800⁰F quench temp, which agrees with datasheet I posted. BUT - I've seen other datasheets with the 1615⁰F quench temp posted by Darrin and Chuck, both whom I have the greatest respect for their knowledge.

    Ken H>
     
  14. samuraistuart

    samuraistuart Well-Known Member

    It may be they just copied/pasted. I even sent Chuck and email about the recommended aus temps on some of his carbon steels, but probably should reach out directly.
     
  15. Darrin Sanders

    Darrin Sanders Moderator

    I copied that data from Chucks site. After playing with it I harden at 1500 after a 6-8 min. soak and temper between 300 & 425 depending on use.
     
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  16. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the input Darrin - why don't you edit your original post to add the correct quench temperature for 80CRV2? Perhaps show both temps with an explanation?

    Ken H>
     
  17. samuraistuart

    samuraistuart Well-Known Member

    Some might scratch their head and ask why use 1080+ for a kitchen slicer, and they're right....not the best steel for that application, but.....I was new to the craft and needed a steel that was easy to HT with simple gear, and 1084 wasn't around at the time.
     
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  18. scott.livesey

    scott.livesey Dealer - Purveyor

    I like to use 800C because it is easier to see than 1475F, especially on my old analog thermometer. With the thin cross sections we are using, no reason to go over 1500F. 80CrV2 makes a good knife period, I use them in the kitchen and the shop. [​IMG]
     
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  19. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

    I posted to this because I'm in the process of my first 80CRV2 blade now and was looking for HT info. This will be the first non-stainless blade I've done in a long time. Reading about 80CrV2 made me wish to try it.

    Ken H>
     
  20. scott.livesey

    scott.livesey Dealer - Purveyor

    KenH and Smallshop like this.

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