5160 too soft?

[jmforge]

I was reading up on the Council Tool Camp Carver axe and noticed that it is 5160 tempered to 55. From what I have read from Larrin's work, 5160 appears to be one of those steels like A2 where you have to "take what the chemistry gives you." Too hard or too soft, not so good. Same with going too soft on steels like CruForgeV. 55Rc would indicate that they might be tempering in the range that can produce TME. I don't think that embrittlement is quite the issue with the plain 10xx steel that they use for ohter acxes, so they can leave them as the USFS specs of that mid 50's range. The "sweet spot for 5160 according to Larrin is like 1500-1525/375-400. that gvives you like 58-59 Rc. Above or below, it looks like you see a drop off in toughness pretty quickly. Any thoughts?

 

[Gliden07]

Councils been around a long time. I have one of their Boys Axes and love it (great for my camper). I know they make all the axes for the Forestry Dept as you have noted. Really don't have a definitive answer except their long time experience and their largest single customer (I would think) The Forestry Dept. Last I knew they were still making all their stuff in this country too!! Something most companies can't say!!

 

[jmforge]

Councils been around a long time. I have one of their Boys Axes and love it (great for my camper). I know they make all the axes for the Forestry Dept as you have noted. Really don't have a definitive answer except their long time experience and their largest single customer (I would think) The Forestry Dept. Last I knew they were still making all their stuff in this country too!! Something most companies can't say!!

But the hardness standards for the Forestry Service are for 10XX steel axes. That is what the regular Council Tool line is made from. Their two premium lines are made from 5160. i don't think that 1055, etc has the same potential for TME issues. The same goes for knife companies that think that softer blades are even tougher when made with ANY steel, I guess that the other question would be if the toughness peak for cutting tool applications appears to be around 58-59, why would you leave it softer? Same question I have about 1095 with certain "hard to the core" type knives. , It is NOT a tough steel and yet people leave it at 56Rc with a spine that is probably a fair bit softer because it won't fully through harden in 1/4 inch thick knives. IN the case one one maker, they appear to forge HT the stuff but just the edge. So what you get is a knife that is "tough" if you are talking about bendy springy stuff. but not tough if you are talking Charpy impact toughness AND does not have the better abrasion resistance of the same steel at say 61-62. Even the "super secret proprietary heat treatment" that one manufacturer tous is merely heat it up in an OVEN instead of a forge and fully quench. i do that every time I heat treat and my methodology is neither proprietary or special.

 

[Gliden07]

But the hardness standards for the Forestry Service are for 10XX steel axes. That is what the regular Council Tool line is made from. Their two premium lines are made from 5160. i don't think that 1055, etc has the same potential for TME issues. The same goes for knife companies that think that softer blades are even tougher when made with ANY steel, I guess that the other question would be if the toughness peak for cutting tool applications appears to be around 58-59, why would you leave it softer? Same question I have about 1095 with certain "hard to the core" type knives. , It is NOT a tough steel and yet people leave it at 56Rc with a spine that is probably a fair bit softer because it won't fully through harden in 1/4 inch thick knives. IN the case one one maker, they appear to forge HT the stuff but just the edge. So what you get is a knife that is "tough" if you are talking about bendy springy stuff. but not tough if you are talking Charpy impact toughness AND does not have the better abrasion resistance of the same steel at say 61-62. Even the "super secret proprietary heat treatment" that one manufacturer tous is merely heat it up in an OVEN instead of a forge and fully quench. i do that every time I heat treat and my methodology is neither proprietary or special.

I hear what your saying! Maybe call or send an Email to Council, talk to the engineers?? Maybe get the information your looking for. Worse thing that could happen is nothing leaving you right where your at.

 

[Taz575]

Remember, Larrins research is geared towards a knife. An axe/hatchet has some different stresses applied to it, different edge cross section, etc.