2013 St. Jude Childrens Hospital Sub Hilt WIP

[J S Machine]

I'll do it Rex. Thanks

Started working on th guards tonight. Thanks To forum member Josh Dabney, I have some 416 stainless to work with

First thing to do is to measure some of it out and cut the pieces for the guard and the sub hilt. I just eye it out to what looks about right, no specific measurement here. First is the main guard-

Then I move the piece up to mark what I need for the sub hilt

Then I take the flat stuff that will be the rear bolsters and mark a general idea line for a piece bigger than it (they) will be-

I really need to get a new sharpie..mine is about dried up..When I get done, here are the sawed pieces-

Now we have to do some squaring up in the mill. This stuff has to be straight before we can do anything with it.
You can see the scale left here on the convex edge of this piece. This is what most steel looks like when it is hot rolled from the mill. It ususally has a full smooth finish if it is cold rolled..at least mild steel does anyway.

In this pic I am squaring up the end of one of the pieces. They basically have to be hit on all sides to get them perfectly square, and then I'll work to my dimensions after that.

I'm only working on the guards for this particular step. The flat pieces for the bolsters will have a different process. The guards are now square-

Next step is to get the guards to the same thickness. When I looked at Bruce bump's pics of his Sub Hilt, the guards appeared to be about the same. I had previously cut the slot in the bottom of the blade blank to 5/16 (.313") that holds the sub hilt in place. I need to get both pieces down to about that. First I take a measurement of the steel before, and it is .380"+

So then we do some face milling. That's the same 1/2" endmill I was using to square everything up..I'm too lazy to change it to something more practical, lol

So in this next pic you can see what they were and what they look like at 5/16" thick.

When they are both finished, I lay them on the blade to get a general idea of the look.

Next step is to lay out and cut the flat pieces to start the rear bolster roughing. What's important here is to be sure I leave enough material to grind away. If I cut to short, I will have to redo something. First thing I do is lay the large pieces of ivory on the blank and look at where I picture that rear bolster to come to. Those two faint marks you see on the rear of the blank are my lines. To be sure, I'm going to put the sub hilt in place and put the scale there to double check. First, I need to be sure the scale is square where it will come in contact with the sub hilt, because that could possibly change the length a tad and throw off my checking on the bolster end..

So I use this little piece of steel I have that is square to check the disc sander..

Then I lightly hit the end of the scale..Gosh this stuff stinks.... haha

So then I can set every thing up as previously described and double check the rear..

Since I know the scale will go past the second mark (the one closest to the rear,) I know that when I lay this flat piece under here to mark it and go to the first mark, there will be plenty there. Note the struggling sharpie line that traces the tang :lol:

After marking each piece for each side, we cut them out and are left with these. The letters mean Right Outside and Left Outside

More to come.

 

[J S Machine]

Started grinding th blade last night. I've seen where Bruce and several people fit the guards on their versions of this knife before heat treat, but the only problem I have there is that since this is damascus, I need to be able to remove scale if it exists when I get done. I usually expect at least a little warpage too, so I always surface grind my blades when they come out. If I fit the guards now, they will not fit after I get the blade out of heat treat and then grind it. I'll probably be dealing with a little hard metal, but that's not really a problem. I will get as much done as I can while it's soft though.

First I blue the blade and scribe a line down the center at the midline.

Then I do the same on the edge, so I know where to bring the bevels to near the edge, top and bottom. The top is actually a false edge, but it needs the same bevels to create the mirrored image. The best way to do this is with a height guage, but I don't have one at the house. I find a drill that is roughly the same diameter as the blade blank thickness, and turn it to where the web is horizontal. I drag it across and it creates a line where I need it.

So here I have rough ground the blade and left plenty of meat on for heat treat.

If you've never had Back Forty Brewing Company Truck Stop Honey brown ale, you should give it a try..Great craft beer. Next we start on the tang rough grinding to create the tapered tang.. Stay tuned.

 

[exitium]

Looking good!

 

[HHH Knives]

Hecks yea!!!!

 

[rhinoknives]

What's the Alcohol content?:biggrin:

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com

 

[J S Machine]

Looks like 6%

http://backfortybeer.com/the_liquid/truck_stop_honey

 

[Bruce Bump]

You may need that high percentage to steady your nerves on that tricky double hollow grind.

 

[J S Machine]

Loos like it's doing its job so far..I'll be sure and get some more

Funny thing is how that midline works out. After I grind the top and bottom, I then focus on the cutaway on the front of the blade on top. Does that thing have a name?

Anyway, it seems to blend the centerline perfectly on out to the tip. I couldn't be happier with it.

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

Loos like it's doing its job so far..I'll be sure and get some more

Funny thing is how that midline works out. After I grind the top and bottom, I then focus on the cutaway on the front of the blade on top. Does that thing have a name?

Anyway, it seems to blend the centerline perfectly on out to the tip. I couldn't be happier with it.

John,
You might want to ease up on the CO'BEER! "Loos like it's doing...", see(!), you're slurring your words, ALREADY!!!! Just sayin'!
Be careful!

OK, I've got to stop kidding around so much!

I did want to see if you might like some company some times during the build, while you are working on it, I'd just like to be a fly on the wall, so I can watch you work!
OR you could put me to work as well! Either way, I'd benefit a great deal, by just getting to be there! If you wouldn't mind some company sometimes, you tell me when to be there and I will do my best to make it, just not during regular working hours, I know you work some Super Human working hours, 7 days a week and all. So, whenever you know you will have some time set aside, and would like some company, let me know as far in advance as you can, OR spur of the moment, if that's what you got! If i can make it, I will, if I can't I'll have to wait and hope for another chance. Just make sure you've got my numbers right! Thanks Bro', Rex

 

[J S Machine]

Rex, it is usually late at night or odd times when I'm working on this thing. I'd be glad to invite you over, but it could be some time in the middle of the night or something.

Now we start the tapering of the tang. First step is to layout some lines on the end of the tang so I can see where I need to go to. I use a height gauge and a surface plate for this

I started to grind on the tang and realized I had not drilled my holes for the rear bolster pieces... Have to do that first. I put some blue on the bolster piece and lay it up under the lanyard hole in the end of the blank.

I then take a 1/4" drill and pass it through the lanyard hole in the blank. The web of the drill is now contacting the blued surface on the bolster. When I twist the drill by hand, it will leave a center mark.

You can see the mark here.

I go through the usual drilling operations already detailed earlier in this thread, and get a hole in each of my bolsters.

Here I have passed a 1/4" dowel through the tang and one of the bolsters with its newly drilled hole. Anytime I do other holes in the same area of a work piece like this, I always pin one and transfer the others with the first still pinned. This ensures that the holes will line up as they should.

After this, I remove the pin and bolster and drill a hole for the pin stock that will be the second pin. It measures 1/8", so that's what I drill. This hole doesn't really need to be in any specific place, just as long as it is in the lower half of the bolster within the edges.

After this, I place that same 1/4" dowel pin back in and orientate the bolster underneath the blank in the position I want it to be when everything is done. I drill through the blank and through the bolster underneath. Remember that 1/4" dowel is holding the hole locations as we do this so they will work out

After I repeat these steps for both sides, I can pin up the drilled pieces.

Then I do the rough grinding on the tang to get the taper we will finish after heat treat. Sorry I don't have any action photos of me grinding..it's usually just me and the radio in the shop

Heat treat coming up..

 

[J S Machine]

I got the blank heat treated over the weekend. Here it is sitting on its spine in the oven.

I always ramp the oven up with the piece inside. I started at about 1200 degrees and worked up to 1500 degrees, which is the heat treat temp on this stuff. You can see the temp there on the oven.

When it comes out of the oven, it is cherry red. I wish I could show pictures of the process, but I need two hands. This is what the blade looks like after it has cooled and still sitting in the canola oil.

Here is the blade when some of the scale has been washed off. You can see what the pattern will look like now

I actually ended up doing this a couple of times, because I initially thought that it wasn't hard enough.

After cleaning it up and getting most of the scale off, I check hardness. I did get one reading of above 60 Rc, but the majority of the readings were an average of 55 or 56. I got a 59 and even a 48 towards the tang end (this is not uncommon because it is put into the quench tip first - the blade should be hard and the tang doesn't have to be). I called Randy and talked with him about it and we agreed that everything was fine. I also called Paul Bos and had a lengthy discussion with him about heat treating damascus. He told me about what I might see with different metal mixtures, and explained that the hardness readings varying is normal. Since I have two different metals, the diamond penetrator has a tough time accurately guaging hardness. Another good indication that you have achieved hardness is when a file skates. It did this in several areas on the blade, so I know I got it as good as it can be. It made me feel better to hear Paul's thoughts on it too. I figured if anybody could give some good info, he probably could. Damascus steel seems to be more of a law of averages as far as hardness goes. Single composition steels never give any fuss and are always right where they should be.

Here is a pic of the one 60+ reading I got

I still had to go through the draw cycles. This is done with low heat..in this case one hour at 300 degrees and one hour at 350 degrees. You have to be careful not to get too hot, because a higher temp will pull the hardness right out of the metal. After that is done, I surface grind the blank to be sure it is perfectly flat. It only had about a .005" bow, wich was good for something that is the length of this piece and oil quenched. It started out about .155" if I remember right, and ended up at .142" after grinding both sides to get it flat.

So last night I started the guard work. Here I have the surface ground blank laying on the table.

I have to measure the blade to be sure I cut the slots in the guards to the correct width and length. Here is the blade showing .142" thick

Now I need to take a measurement of the ricasso where I am pointing here. First I take a file and lightly dust this area off and be sure there is no scale. It is important the guard fit tight with no unsightly gaps, so we need to be sure this is clean before we measure.

Then I measure..

Here I have blued the main guard and put some lines on that I can reference. Ultimately I will use an edge finder on this to get the location, but these lines are just to visualize.

Here I have set the main guard up in the mill and I'm using an edge finder to find the edge. After his I use the machine dials to get to the location of the slot.

I've started cutting the slot here. I'm using a 1/8" endmill. That is .125", so I will step over about .008" on each side to get the required .142" to make the guard fit over the blank. I will cut it just undersize so that I can fit it after the fact. Over shooting this will kill it. Like I said, no unsightly gaps if we can help it.

I have to step the endmill down about .05" and make a pass, and then step again repeatedly until I get through the bottom. This endmill is small and fragile and we don't want to break it. Here it is cutt all the way through.

After doing the .008" steps per side, the blade just fits down in the guard snug. This leaves me material in there to file out for the final fit.

Then I repeat the steps for the trigger guard.

Now, as a last step for last night, I filed a little on the sub hilt slot to see how much work it would take to get it to fit.

It didn't take much. So here are the guards cut and ready to be final fit. We will do that next.

 

[Lagrange]

Very interesting. Love it so far!

 

[Josh Dabney]

Yes this is most excellent !

-Josh

 

[J S Machine]

Appreciate it Eric!

 

[J S Machine]

You too Josh!

 

[J S Machine]

Got the guards fitted. These were the first guards I'e ever done, and they were not easy. I probably had about four or five hours in this alone. To start with I had to do this a certain way. Since I was worried about warpage, I had to heat treat and surface grind the blade to ensure that it was straight before I did the guard fit. When done this way, the filing on the blade is very difficult because of the hardness. However, if I had fit the guards before heat treat and final grinding, the blade thickness would have changed when surface ground, and caused a gap in the guards where I had fit them before..they would be to big.

Anyway, if you remember, I milled the guards close to what the blade ended up being (.142") and then said we would do the fitting after. That's where we are now. I have started filing here on the ricasso part of the blade. I have to use diamond files to move any metal here, because of the hardness. A regular file will skate and not cut. This process is alot slower, but it's the nature of the beast in this case. You can see the very fine metal dust created.

I said I would go back and do one thing at a time, so I focused on the sub hilt slot first. All I'm doing here is filing a radius on either side of that notch in the blade to match the radius in the slot on the guard.

It is now done and you can see the guard in place. The picture is not that great, but the gap at the bottom is not there becuase of the fit. The top protrudes up slightly past the spine. This is good, we'll grind that down later to match.

Now I start working on the main guard. This thing was a basket case for real. I left a little too much material to take out and filing is really slow. The good news though is that this 416 stainless is fairly soft, so I can cut it with regular files. The slot was not wide enough or long enough. Better than being too big I guess. I got a Mitutoyo guage block and started using that insted of trying to fit the blade. The guage block measures .142".

Now if you remember, the original ricasso height was 1.085". You can see here with this measurement, that we have a ways to go to get the slot wide enough to even fit over the blade.

A little more filing gets us wider..but still not enough.

I ended up rounding off all the blade edges just to get the clearance I needed to get it on. Finally I got the length of the slot wide enough to get it down to the start of the ricasso. Then I still had to work on the rounding of the ricasso to get the guard down to the steps (its final seated position).

Here it is when viewing from the tang end. You can see the radiuses still need to be filed down more in order to enable it to slide on

Finally after a few more hours of work, I got it on. The gaps don't look that bad either. I'll take it

Here is the blade with both guards installed. Next we will have to drill the holes for the pins and work on shaping those guards. I was going to get started on that last night but I fell asleep on the couch..

More to come.

Happy fourth of July!

 

[Brad Lilly]

Looking real good. This is going to be a real classy knife when it is finished

 

[J S Machine]

Thank you Brad. Much appreciated.

 

[Bruce Bump]

Lookin good!

 

[J S Machine]

Got the guard holes drilled and a little shaping done. I had to set the guards in place and put a sharpie mark about Where I needed the holes. I need two on the main guard and one on the sub hilt. The sub hilt has the notch on the bottom, so there is no pin needed on that end.

I'll drill the holes in the guards first, and then transfer them over to the blade blank after. To start with, I use a small (#1 size I think) center drill. As it often happens, I broke the center drill. These little tools are so fragile.

The center drill is hardened tool steel, better known as high speed steel. This can present a problem because no other tool is going to get it out but something harder..like carbide. Thank goodness I had a small carbide end mill on hand. I think this thing was like .050" or something. You end up basically plunge milling through the broken off piece until you get to the parent metal to finish with another HSS tool. Note that most drills and other cuting tools are HSS or M2. There are variations, such as cobalt too.

After I got through with that, I switched to a #47 drill (.0785") to do a pilot hole for what will next be drilled to 1/8"

And here is the 1/8"

After I get that first hole, I just repeat those steps for the other hole in the main guard, as well as the hole in the sub hilt. Check out the burrs that we now have inside. That will surely affect that fit we worked so hard to create.

I use my little file to get in there and take care of those.

After that, we are ready to pu the holes into the blade blank. I didn't really have an exact plan for this, but what I did worked. I knew the tang of this blade would be hard, so I knew that carbide would be needed to get through it. The only way I could figure out how to do this was to clamp the guard in the vise, and then drill (plunge with an end mill) the holes by transferring them through the guard holes. In this position here, I pushed the blank all the way up to the stops and held it with my left hand while I worked the Z axis for the plunge with the 1/8" endmill.

Once I got the main guard done, I measured the distance from the main guard to the sub hilt on the loose (pin) end, just to be sure it was where it needed to be before I drilled there. The last thing we would want to do is have it in the wrong position and then put a hole in.

After I got that location, I scratched some lines on either side of the guard for reference. This way, I don't have to keep measuring and I can see where it needs to be at a glance.

You can see the lines created here. I could have blued this, but the fit is snug on the guard and it would have just scratched the blue all up when sliding it on and off and trying to get it in position.

Now, here is the shot of all the holes. As expected, holding the blade in position while doing that subhilt hole was difficult, and it moved a little off location. I then had to put the blade in the vise, and open up the hole a little with that same 1/8" piece of carbide. You can see how the hole is a little egg shaped. That's ok. Once it is in installed, the scale pieces and everything will hold it in position, along with the pin which will be peened (piened?) on either side.

As you probably noticed in the previous picture, I have put some sharpie marks on the guards for the general idea of how I want them shaped.

I'll rough these out with machining to miminize time on the grinders. Here I have the sub hilt set up and I'm using a 1/2" end mill to plunge out the trigger profile.

You can see in that picture how tall (or wide) the guards are. I'm sure they will be thinner in the end, but I don't know yet. I will have to ge the scale pieces on and get an idea of what the overall handle thiickness will be before I cut those down.

Here I am putting some of the angles on the front of the guard.

And now those same radiuses for the back profile.

Now that the roughing is complete, you can get a general sense of what the final shape will look like. Still alot of grinding and shaping work, but this gets some of the metal out of the way.

Stay tuned.