1084 Red Liner Details

opaul

opaul

Well-Known Member
I have attached a couple of close ups of the red liner for the 1084 and black micarta. I'm trying to put more emphasis on the fit and finish than I ever have before. I have to constantly challenge myself to accomplish this and I have so far to go. I've said it many times, I get impatient and rush things.
So with that said what are you guys doing to push yourself to the next level or plateau? If J. Doyle reads this (and I hope he does) his work is 'so up there' along with Ed G. and a few others, my question to you is how did you get to the level of knife making that you are at today? Thanks!
What are some of the things (newer knife makers) doing that continues to help your work progress (besides time on the grinder).

 
Colored epoxy is a great tip.

Do you attach the liners to the scale prior to attaching to the knife blank?? I usually rough cut the scales and liners and attach them together using colored epoxy. Then I flatten them and they are cut/ground down to fit the knife blank a bit better. This gets rid of the epoxy build up around the edge. Then attached to the knife blank. Then after attachment - all are final fit and finished sanded. The final hand sanding is the key. Slow and steady for an even appearing seam. Seems like a long way of doing it but I think it helps with the final end result. It just looks nicer.

I have also gone to using G10 as liners. Not always, but mostly. I think G10 finishes a bit better than the vulcanized stuff. Although, I hate the red G10 color. I prefer the red vulcanized liners for color purposes and will just continue to suffer using them.
 
I'm very interested in here from you guys on this one. One thing that I'm just starting to learn is that I need to slow the heck down. I am making something that (in theory) is going to out live myself. So lately I have been taking the extra time handsanding ,moving slower, trying to be more precise. I want people to get excited to have and use my blades. I obviously have a long way to go in this craft but that simple change of mindset has pushed me over the edge to create some of my best work yet BY FAR
 
Dennis Morland said:
Colored epoxy is a great tip.

Do you attach the liners to the scale prior to attaching to the knife blank?? I usually rough cut the scales and liners and attach them together using colored epoxy. Then I flatten them and they are cut/ground down to fit the knife blank a bit better. This gets rid of the epoxy build up around the edge. Then attached to the knife blank. Then after attachment - all are final fit and finished sanded. The final hand sanding is the key. Slow and steady for an even appearing seam. Seems like a long way of doing it but I think it helps with the final end result. It just looks nicer.

I have also gone to using G10 as liners. Not always, but mostly. I think G10 finishes a bit better than the vulcanized stuff. Although, I hate the red G10 color. I prefer the red vulcanized liners for color purposes and will just continue to suffer using them.
Click to expand...

Dennis, I epoxy the liners to the scale material before I do any scale mounting. The process is sand and flatten the G10 and sand and flatten the scale material on the granite surfacing block. I typically rough up the G10 and scale material with 60 grit sand paper and cross hatch with a box cutter on both the liner and the scale material, then I mount the blade on top of the scales and drill the holes. After that is marking the outline of the blade and then cutting the shape out on the band saw.

I'm not seeing where colored epoxy would help me. Are you guys seeing the epoxy line? This is exactly the type feed back I need. Thanks.
 
Op I have only been on KnifeDogs for a few months. I can tell you that I have seen your "knife game" get better with ever knife you make. It is some times hard to see your own work getting better but other people do. I don't think anybody on knifedogs will disagree with me. So as long as you just keep doing what you are doing and trying to do you will reach the level of fit and finish with the best of them. Just my 2 cents
Jason
 
opaul said:
Where do you get the colorant?
Click to expand...

You can get it from online knife suppliers. I still have some in white, black, blue and red. I have ran out of yellow, green and orange. But you can go to the paint store with some small baby food jars and ask them to match the colors of the liners that you will use. Ask for and use the dry mixture. It looks like a dry powder. About like chili powder, onion powder, or garlic powder. Some makers use a liquid paint colorant. The dry mixture will last longer and store much better. Especially in a baby food jar with a tight lid.
 
Volkert Forge said:
Op I have only been on KnifeDogs for a few months. I can tell you that I have seen your "knife game" get better with ever knife you make. It is some times hard to see your own work getting better but other people do. I don't think anybody on knifedogs will disagree with me. So as long as you just keep doing what you are doing and trying to do you will reach the level of fit and finish with the best of them. Just my 2 cents
Jason
Click to expand...
Thanks Volkert. I appreciate the feedback. I guess the end game is continuous improvement and refinement!
 
Dennis Morland said:
You can get it from online knife suppliers. I still have some in white, black, blue and red. I have ran out of yellow, green and orange. But you can go to the paint store with some small baby food jars and ask them to match the colors of the liners that you will use. Ask for and use the dry mixture. It looks like a dry powder. About like chili powder, onion powder, or garlic powder. Some makers use a liquid paint colorant. The dry mixture will last longer and store much better. Especially in a baby food jar with a tight lid.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have never even thought about using a colorant!
 
OP - It is sometimes hard to match the colors exactly. White and black are no brainers. All of the others (red, blue, green, orange, yellow, etc.) have so many different choices. Mixing it in epoxy is more of an educated guess as opposed to an exact science. So, take the liners with you and have them match to the best of their ability. I think I paid like $3.00 for half a baby food jar the last time I needed to get some. You do not need to use very much of it. It will last a long time...
 
I've had some issues with colored epoxy and quit using it.

If you have deep (60/80 grit) scratches, the epoxy can show as tiny "hairs" in the different colored liner. For instance, black epoxy in red liners.

Makes the liner look dirty.

Now I'm just fastidious about cleaning the epoxy before it dries. A Q-tip and acetone works great.
 
You've asked a tough question opaul. For me time is something that is not a consideration anymore. I used to focus on speeding things up because that's how you make more knives. Now the focus is just on improving what I'm making, not how long it takes. I try to fix all of the things that I'm not happy with, stopping at the point where it will ruin the knife if I keep going. No more machine finished parts of the knife. My favorite part of knife making is the hand finishing, why try to eliminate it? Something that holds me back for fear of making a mistake..... If you're going to try and make a John Doyle quality knife you have too try! He didn't get as good as he is by cranking them out for the masses.
 
Ty Adams said:
You've asked a tough question opaul. For me time is something that is not a consideration anymore. I used to focus on speeding things up because that's how you make more knives. Now the focus is just on improving what I'm making, not how long it takes. I try to fix all of the things that I'm not happy with, stopping at the point where it will ruin the knife if I keep going. No more machine finished parts of the knife. My favorite part of knife making is the hand finishing, why try to eliminate it? Something that holds me back for fear of making a mistake..... If you're going to try and make a John Doyle quality knife you have too try! He didn't get as good as he is by cranking them out for the masses.
Click to expand...

You hit on some really good points Ty - the hand finishing aspect can’t be over looked or over stated.
I do believe that a certain skill level can be achieved by practice and repetition to a point and then it becomes who can advance beyond the that. Personal capabilities and artistic abilities then become more important.
But I also agree that the pursuit of quality should never end. You are way ahead of me on that.
 
opaul said:
You hit on some really good points Ty - the hand finishing aspect can’t be over looked or over stated.
I do believe that a certain skill level can be achieved by practice and repetition to a point and then it becomes who can advance beyond the that. Personal capabilities and artistic abilities then become more important.
But I also agree that the pursuit of quality should never end. You are way ahead of me on that.
Click to expand...
Opaul I don't think that I'm ahead of anyone, you make really nice knives. It just depends on what your goal is. Do you want to make nice knives for a broad market, or do you want to target a small fit and finish driven market? I'm slow and spend too much time worrying about small details. So detailed orentained knives is the direction that I want to go. There are a lot of good makers that choose the market of a good looking knife without any of the time consuming embellishments and do well. Do you want to spend 10 hours on a well built good looking knife that someone will enjoy, or do you want to spend 60 hours on a knife that a limited market will enjoy. It's a tough choice that each of us have to make.
 
I get my colorant from K& G Supplies.
Some times you have to ask for a certain color. Last time I ordered I did not see orange but they had it not on web site.
 
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