testing different types of etching

SHOKR

SHOKR

Well-Known Member
testing different types of etching (forced patina)

hi-lo!

i wasnt really sure where to post this, since its (sort of) a WIP, about knife deco, by a new knifemaker! so i went with this one :)

i have been thinking about discovering etching for a while, and recently i (ignorantly) used an O1 blade to cut strawberry. which apparently everybdoy knew was acidic except me. so the blade oxidized, which gave me the final push to try different kinds of etching. specially since this incident drove me to want to etch the KDM design i am doing WIP on now.

i will try 5 different SIMPLE materials of etching.

i came up with
1mustard
2vinegar
3cola
4lemon
5a fruit(i know lemon is a fruit, but... you know)

if you have any suggestions or feel some of these are very similar please let me know, i am welcoming any information.
i may replace one of these with car battery 'water' which is diluted acid, sulphuric?

also since i have two sides to the steel will be doing 2 fixed grits on each piece, suggestions are welcome fore these too

now i dont know the type of that steel, all i know is local knifemakers make kitchen and butcher knives using it (they dont know the type either) its scrap gang saw blades (which are used to cut marble). but since the material and grit is constant it should prove to be a good experiment (hopefully :D)

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i cut 5 small pieces to fit into 5 small jars

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here 1 is ground to 40g
notice that every piece has a 'valley' which of course adds to the excitement of the challenge :3:
let me tell ya, thos were NOT easy to grind on the platen, so after few encounters between my fingers and the 40g belt and countless times when the piece fall into the dunk bucket (which also acts as sophisticated dust collection system) i kinda 'relaxed' my standards about the look of the pieces finish.


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after trying to remove that lower part on the grinder and having hell of a time doing it, thought i would try the angle grinder, which actually helped quite a bit


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here all 5 pieces are ground to 40g

now i took them to 80 but didnt take pics, next 220g then pics

edit: btw i didnt remove the the sides because i need all the material posibble to hold the pieces, but will clean when done with sanding the surface
 
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You also might want to try Alum (available in the baking section of your grocery store). I have never tried it for etching, but I do use it for dissolving drill bits when they get broken off in the work. I am going to try it when I get to it.... ...Teddy
 
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thats at 220g, looks bit ugly, apparently belt i was using was messed up at the welding a bit

but i fixed most of it with fresh 320g

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thats at 400g which i thought best be the bare minimum for a knife's finish. so stamped the grit and piece number. and yes apparently i dont know how '5' is written lol
stamped number on other side too.

havent decided which grit i will go with on the other side, thinking 1000 or 1000-something
i'll take a break now.

let me know what you guys think

rest of sanding will be done by hand
 
That will be interesting. Only thing I might have done different is cut the pieces longer so they could still be used for knives later. :).
 
Just a few thoughts.

While technically this is "etching" the steel I thought you were referencing makers mark etching, LOL. I'd refer to this as a "forced patina"

Try bleach.

I don't think a super high grit finish is going to be as important as a consistant finish. It'll be interesting to see your results on this experiment :)

-Josh
 
ricky thats alright, the steel is not expensive, and those would actually be my reference for future as well :)

Josh, thanks for the correction. you guys can fix the title if you want :)

i remember you used bleach on military model. but what is bluing? :D

thanks
 
hmm i will see if i can get that locally

something tells me i will need a follow up with more pieces lol

will try and use bleach Josh :)
 
things are going bit slow, but i only work outside and thats the weather for 2 days
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rains too!
if working outside in that weather is not enough proof that i love what im doing i dunno what is lol

anyway i profiled the pieces
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i used the platen to when profiling so i would have more 'push' and discovered a not so fun surprise too late
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the side on the platen got some pretty deep scratches, oh well, live and learn

i used fresh 400g to clean it, also chamfered the corners
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a couple of shallow scratches remained on two pieces, but as long as the majority of the surface is good i dont believe it would affect the testing

while working i wanted to eliminate chances of rust as much as possibile so i kept rotating through the pieces and leaving them to air cool instead of dipping in water (the weather helped :D)

coming next is sanding the non 400 side, gathering the etching materials and getting everything ready.
when everything is ready i will clean the pieces so they wont get anything on them before dipping in etchants.
 
got containers and numbered them
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if you havent guessed yet, i like cherry jam!! actually probably when im done posting i'l some with cake instead of lunch

since i wont be suspending the pieces i marked the etchant level, it leaves me just enough to pull the pieces upwards without dipping into the liquid
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and finally the main performers, i replaced the 'fruit' with bleach (that one is for you Josh ;))

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that would make the materials i will use:
lemon, cola, bleach, mustard, and vinegar

i also plan on using a sticker and nail polish to cover a part of the piece, found those from when i was a kid, yes, hearts, grow up! :p
will probably get nail polish today and plan how i'll do this
intervals of checking, etc.
anybody with any experience is welcome to speak :)

btw i remember seeing someone etching with mustard before, cant remember where though. do i just cover the steel, or dip it? believe it or not i never used mustard on food before (had it on fast food, but it was already there!)

thanks
 
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Very cool project SHOKR! I am looking forward to seeing the results.

On the mustard, from what I have seen people do (no experience here), is just rub it on the knife and let it sit. I can't get close to the stuff. I have a mustard phobia (it looks bad, stinks bad and tastes bad to me)

Thanks for taking the time to experiment.
 
thanks

im not a fan either, yet not to that degree i guess :) thanks for the tip Steven!
 
now,
all pieces are dipped in etchers, i'll post what happened so far

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pieces cleaned with acetone and laid on tissue. jars filled with etchers to determined level, except '3' which will be mustard, it will be added on the piece directly. vinegar jar is in microwave ready for heating
also put little sticker on each side of the pieces.

20130114_201908.jpg

to keep track of everything
1 vinegar
2 cola
3 mustard
4 bleach
5 lemon
the numbers on left are in minutes then hours. i gave up on that because i sat in front of them for 10mins with nothing happening, so will check after an hour.

i actually wanted to start that in the morning so i can keep following, but since i missed my chance yesterday and again today i thought i'll just go ahead and do it.
btw i placed them all at 8:28 my time (GMT +2)

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a streak of nail polish added on both sides of all pieces and left to dry. a free terriblecmagazine is laid under in case of spillage.

i think i didnt explain the point of stickers and nail polish. they are used as 'protection' for steel, in case one want to make any marks, patters, writing, protect a certain part, etc. so im testing two methods for that.
actually i missed using glue... im not so happy now! but, i can always try another time ;)

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all set, all pieces in etchers. now we wait and see :)
 
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after about an hour

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1
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2
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3
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4
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5
20130114_214356.jpg


vinegar is getting bit rust with spots (thats probably where icfind bubblles on steel)

bleach so far seems unaffected

weird thing is the uncovered part in mustard got affected and bellow it didnt, i am guessing it needs air to have effect, either leave it for a WHILE or put light layer with spacing inbetween to create a pattern

note: the fumes coming out of those things are probably enough to cause brain damage, the very least a nasty headache!!!!
 
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3-hour check

1
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2
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3
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that doesnt seem to be affected beneath the mustard, so will try something else

4
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nothing beneath the surface of the bleach

5
20130114_233801.jpg

also lemon doesnt seem to be affected

i tried this with mustard, thin layer on one side, and parallel lines on another, hoping that air gets 'in there'
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i sleep now :)
 
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2012_0424Knife0002.jpg

Not really a good pic, but if you keep enlarging it (click on picture twice) you'll see the top knife has a design done with mustard overnite and then a full dip in vinegar for maybe an hour. Second knife was a 3 hour dip in white vinegar, cleaning off the oxides 3-4 times with a fine scotchbrite pad. Bottom is polished and blued....not relavant to this test. All 3 knives were A-2.

I found that only the edges etch with mustard unless you do several seperate coats just dabbing it on. With bleach, I believe you need to put the steel in a closed container with the bleach but not submerged in it. The fumes do the work. Also out in the sun for heat...which shouldn't be a problem for you. Interesting test.

Rudy
 
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