old 1095(start of my kith knife)

Patrick its old but not lazy:) and you already have one of mine from last year. :)
Creason stay at it,it gets easier just picture the line you want when hammering it in, i use light blows and create that
line before i even touch the edge. If you need more help just pm me.

Wade thanks for the encouragement watching you guys kind of inspires me to keep coming back to the forge!!!
 
hamon...hamon...hamon...

I am all for it.

I will repay with a seriously vivid hamon on mine. I will be using some cutoff of low manganese 1075, and that stuff is beautiful in its response to forge/clay ht.
 
Ok hamon it is kevin :p Cant wait to see what everyone else is coming up with, if youve started post it here hijack my thread i dare ya :)
 
ok cant decide witch way to go with hamon so here's some ideals what you guys think?
Or if you guys come up with a pattern you want me to try post it up!
 

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Lookin good man!
I got started on mine today, but my shoulder gave out about the same time I ran out of propane, and I haven't even got the bevels forged in yet...
Either I'm gettin old, or this old leafspring really is 5160.
 
George, pics or it didn't happen lol. of the spring or you holding your arm either one will do :)
Well guys think i now witch one i am going to use, going to leave it as a surprise till i post up a pic.

And im getting lonely no one else got any pics to put in here? And thanks for the input on the halmon guys!
 
Well that stinks i did not get near what i thought i would get with my hamon may just redo :(
What you guys think kind of plain or leave as is? I guess i was expecting more movement and shades,any ideal on another pattern?
By the way i went with 4 and it looks like i got 5 thats whats got me confussed!!!!
 

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Franklin - that surely is a good knife. The hamon could be more vivid.
This is one with simillar dimensions to yours that I did with a mix of low mang 1075 and w2. Equal parts, 400 layers. Hot Tap Water for 3 sec, then Parks 50.

mike wood's knife blade close-up.JPG

You have a great knife underway. If you do the same thing with the right steel, you will get a result somewhat like this one. I will try to get my latest monosteel bauernwehr polished this weekend, and I will show. It is low manganese 1075. I think your technique is very good, it was just that some 1095 is lower (but none is truly LOW in manganese). That is why Don Fogg and the others got such great results with that alloy through the years with hamons. Tai gets some just mind blowing stuff with the right 1095. Still, the alloys I am talking about have manganese levels in the 20's. That opens the door for some really interesting effects.

here is one more - w2 I think. Also similar dimensions. I love this particular shape as a using knife and it is a blast to make. I will probably make one sort of like this again, only with a real guard.
IMG_0371.jpg


hope this helps.
kc
 
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Yep kevin thats the kind of fog i was talking about. So you quench in water then 3 seconds take out and then right into the 50,
do i got that right? Were do you get your w-2, or 1075 from?
 
Aldo Bruno, NJ Steel Baron (and a very cool fellow, except right when he wakes up). You would get a very similar look with your quench oil and no water. But, I use water. On Don Fogg's site, there is a metallurgical comparison of the hamon formed from the same process used on two identical pieces of steel from the same bar of 1095 (the lower manganese 1095). There are more transitional structures in the hamon area and a lager section with mixed martensite and pearlite. What this means, I think, is that the hamon had a narrower transition line and a little less activity when quenched in Parks 50 versus water. And, the clay was thinner on the Parks blade. It may not make any real difference. As soon as I get my Evenheat kiln in, I am going to do some serious testing of w2 and low mang 1075 with water-into-parks versus just Parks. I want to lay this one to rest for myself. Parks (or dt48) is SO much safer. But... if it leads to a prettier product, then the risk will be taken.
kc
 
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If you got a ideal for a test i have a oven! and a 1 gallon bucket of furnace cement,and the dt-48. If you can think of a way to do some testing i am game. Would like to see some rc #s above and below the hamon line to just curious. that could be fun. :D
 
I am just going to get several blades of the same dimensions and same clay layout. w2 and low mang 1075. Water into Parks versus Parks. Polish out to 2500, etch equal number of times in vinegar, knock oxides off with FF pumice below hamon and Mother's mag and alum polish above. All blades normalized 4 times, from their recommended austinizing temp plus about 75F down to just under nonmagnetic. 2 w2 in water-into-parks, one done at bottom of heat treat range prior to quench, one done at top. 2 low mang 1075 in water-into-parks (one at bottom of austenizing range, one at top). Same thing with 4 more blades for Parks. Same soak time for all blades, even though only w2 needs it, really. 8 blades in a 2x2x2 experiment. If it was a real experiment, we would have to use 20 in each group. BUT, I just wanna know really the water versus parks. The effect of higher versus lower heat could be neat, also. The comparison of the two steels doesn't matter as much, they are both great. You could also do this with just one alloy or the other. I want to use both so there are more data points because I really care the most about Parks versus water-into-Parks.

hope this makes sense.
kc
 
That sounds good Kevin, maybe i will get some 1095 from Aldo and do the same with the jantz steel i have and see the difference.
Ok got to get back to my kith at the rate im going it will be next june lol. on another thought what if you hardened in water only
before you grind think that would be a lot difference?
 
the thing you are balancing with the decision of water versus oil is that water gives more activity but it is riskier. So, you leave the blade thicker and it can deal with the stress better. But, with a thicker blade, you lose more of the ashi and activity in the hamon when you grind down to final size. The interrupt quench gets all of the same activity as just water, because it really is the first second in the quench that sets up the hamon. Also, the interrupt is less brutal on the steel, because the actual transformation to martensite happens later in the cooling process (I don't remember the ms temps offhand, but it is somewhere between 900F and 600F for the steels we use).

So, we need to get below 1100 (and down close to 900) as fast as possible (changes again somewhat with the steel, I am not referring to charts, just giving general info). We have to get below 1100 (or maybe even close to 900) so fast to get full hardening and dogde pearlite. But, after we get there, we want to slow things down so that the transformation into martensite can be done relatively slowly. That way, the steel is not tearing itself apart as it changes molecular arrangement and density.

Why did I go through all of that again when you already know it - just to emphasize that water-into-oil and water alone have the same effects in terms of hamon activity. But, the resulting knife may have less remaining activity with water because you may have been forced to leave the blade thicker to distribute the stresses. So, with water alone, some of the good activity can be lost.

What I want to know is whether this same basic process means that the effects from Parks or simillar stuff may be just as good as water-interrupt. You lose some in initial cooling, but you can leave the blade closer to final dimensions, so you get to retain more of the activity without loss to grinding. So, on balance, how does this all work out?

I gotta start my knife, too.

kc
 
Ok im bummed i went to redo the hamon and for what ever reason the blade got a crack in it #$%^&* is the words i used.
Oh well plenty o time left i will just post up another :(
 
Isn't it amazin' that you can hear that little "Tink" with all the other noise going on during a quench...
Break it off and make a short skinner out of it....
 
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