Ever hit a roadblock that you just can't seen to get past?- or how to make a folder!

I will tell you this. The frst knife I ever made was a folder, liner lock at that, and I still carry it every day on my person. That's it in my avatar. I just recently made a damascus blade for it..something I've always wanted to do.

I found a very good tutuorial on how to make one similar step by step, and I followed it to a T but made changes on how I wanted my knife to be. I made every single piece but the 4-40 screws, and I'll admit - It was very hard. I scratched my head for a month straight but in the end I figured it out.

These people are right. If you jump in and actually see how the mechanics work, you will better understand the purpose of what each thing does and how it affects the next.

If you have any questions, just ask :)
 
Well here is a story of how I managed to get to a point where I like many, can teach others who become better than me.
This all started about 18 or more years ago. And if there was forums back then, I wouldn't have found them since I did not have a computer.
I started out with a big push from my brother. He had a couple of my straight knives but figured a folder type would also be good to have. I still wonder it the fact the he got the straight knives were for free had anything to do with his request?
I started on a lock back in a size the would have a blade about 3" long. I believe any point of construction ,and I mean any , that I came to was an immediate problem area. I was fortunate to have an unending supply of stainless 302 1/2 hard (?) spring stainless precision ground to .050. This was where all else of good things stopped. My drill bits at the time did not want to make proper round holes. I spent the money getting some new ones and starting over again. The starting over was to become the order of the day. I finally got to a place where now I had to have a spring to operate this thing and all my efforts to produce a reasonable one all failed. Well, I did have bolsters and scales on this chubby looking thing and to me that part looked not bad with the shiney silver bolsters and black ebony wood.
I guess at least more than 6 months had gone by without me getting any further but continuing with the making of straight knives for hunting.
The Blade magazine realeased an article showing pictures of linerlocks. Boy, I thought this could be the way to still get that first folder finished for my brother. I still had on hand many feet of that spring steel for the liners. And so I started again. I immediately realized that the positioning of the pivot hole and holes for the back bar had to be right on. The trial and error thing started again. By now I had drill bits that would drill neat holes for me but it seemed that my pattern changed hole positions with each side liner I tried to make. It was a big moment in my shop when I realized that the way to make the second side was to use the first one as an overlay with the correct sized pivot hole drilled on a rough shaped rectangular piece that was to be the second liner that a pin could be placed through to establish positioning of all the other holes that wolud be drilled. The pieces were as well clamped together and as I drilled holes a drill bit was placed upside down through both holes. Wow, I now had two liners ! I had not made a pattern so now it was time to get a blade to fit. A good piece of cardboard should work well for this, I thought. Not so good a thought at all when I wanted to transfer this to a piece of metal. The metal or another piece of it was the next thing to be try fitted to give me a blade - of sorts. It was time to cut that notch in the back bottom of the blade with an angle on it where the liner would pop in. I did have a an angle measuring dial and managed to figure a simple procedure of how to keep the blade in position and getting it ground . Boy this was getting easier all the time ! I was on a roll ! Yes I was but I must have been at the top of the hill and it was now time for reality to come back. I had to position the blade height. Would I grind on the back of the blade or the front of the back bar? I may have done some of both. I can remember it didn't matter which one I sized down but I definitely remenber it was too short a fit. The back bar was remade and now it was time to slice the liner. In fact I was proud of myself that I could make such a straight line when hand holding the Dremel hand piece. Boy, why did I do that again? I'm giving myself a pat on the back to find in the next move I'm going to destroy the whole liner by making the lenghth of the leaf shorter than it should be. By now I had learned that I could make pieces over. If I could make one, I could make as many as I wanted. Wasn't that something good?
Well , now, the blade would move between the liers and the leaf would jump over and hold the blade open. This was pretty cool ! To bad there wasn't someone around who would recgnize this marvolous development I had arrived at. Well, then I thought. maybe it wasn't quite ready to show yet. I still needed scales of some sort. How about some flash, I thought. I did have some nice red coloured micarta and didn't those Swiss Army folders look so good in red? This folder was made to have the pivot going through from the outside and was not to be a hidden type. Well I was going to do this with the pivot screw bellow the surface of the micarta which went from one end to the other, and it was going to be a close fit around rhe screw as well. Dang but that micarta can cut with a rough surface left behind in the hole. I do remember that I had to use more than one pivot. It seemed that the pivot was too long and then too short after me making a length adjustment. The micarta was creating a bit of problem because of the hole sizing I had used.
It was finally done !!! I just had to show it to someone. I rushed into the house to show my wife. "Look what I've made, sweatheart." She didn't even reach for it but said "That's nice dear. What would you like for supper?"
I wasn't disapointed at all. I suddenly realized that the problems I had solved as I went along and what ever degree of difficulty I overcame was what it was all about to me, and it didn't really matter what I was holding in my hand or what anyone else thought about it.
Go for it Bob !!!!! It could be a lot of fun even thogh there might be problems to solve as you go. My very best to you !!!!! Frank
 
I think it is a visualization thing for me.

When I built my first grinder, I had it all planned out in my head and built it with no surprises. Same with my Hydraulic press and the treadle hammer and the etcher and the stencil light box and many, many other things.

I cannot build a folder in my mind and therefore I just do not start one. There are too many possible things to screw up and I have not avoided them in my mind yet.

I am bad that if I am not sure if I can complete something, I don't want to start it.

That is my roadblock.

I never believed that I could not make one, just can't get my head wrapped around it yet.

Thanks to all that have replied so far. It is always great to have support.
 
Once you see one made you are going to kick yourself for not making them sooner. They are easier than you think.

Yep! and as Mr. Burch pointed out, things are going to get messed up and you'll waste some time and materials. Start out with some 1095 or O1, they are dirt cheap. I decided to learn to make autos shortly after I went full-time but that meant that I wouldn't produce anything to sell for well over a week but learned it and now it's another type of knife I can make if I need to.

I haven't read this entire thread so I don't know if anyone has invited you to their shop yet or not but Texas has a ton of fine folder makers, I'm sure you'll find someone to help you. Getting to spend the day with someone making a folder should be a huge help.

I'm sure with the knifemaking experience you have that you'll pick it up quickly.
 
Something I don't remember ever seeing is something that I have in my head is a lockback that screws together. Is anyone aware of a completely screw together lockback?

I have looked at the kits but all lockbacks kits I have seen are pin together and I KNOW I will screw up a peening job and have a tight knife. Adding shims is supposed to help avoid this but I am like a bull in a china cabinet and can't do anything lightly.

I am going @!%@#$!@ nuts trying to get this in my head. BUT, when I do it, I hope it impresses someone.
 
Something I don't remember ever seeing is something that I have in my head is a lockback that screws together. Is anyone aware of a completely screw together lockback?

I have looked at the kits but all lockbacks kits I have seen are pin together and I KNOW I will screw up a peening job and have a tight knife. Adding shims is supposed to help avoid this but I am like a bull in a china cabinet and can't do anything lightly.

I am going @!%@#$!@ nuts trying to get this in my head. BUT, when I do it, I hope it impresses someone.

I did it once a long time ago when I was making lockbacks, the hardest part is using a pivot for the lock bar, you'll need to use flat head screws on the pivot but remember to try to get a hardened pivot. The rest of the knife can be assembled like a regular liner lock.
 
Something I don't remember ever seeing is something that I have in my head is a lockback that screws together. Is anyone aware of a completely screw together lockback?

I have looked at the kits but all lockbacks kits I have seen are pin together and I KNOW I will screw up a peening job and have a tight knife. Adding shims is supposed to help avoid this but I am like a bull in a china cabinet and can't do anything lightly.

I am going @!%@#$!@ nuts trying to get this in my head. BUT, when I do it, I hope it impresses someone.

Chris Crawfords DVD on scale release autos will show you how to make a lock back that screws together. Until you start on the catch for the blade in the closed position everything else is the same as a lock back.

Also this book I thought was pretty reasonable. [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Lockback-Knife-Design-Completed-Folding/dp/076433509X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1279146816&sr=1-1"]Amazon Link to Lock back Knife Design[/ame]

Alistair
 
Thanks guys. I have Chris' video so I better watch it again.

Now what size screws, taps, drills and step drills are common? I would like to avoid a bunch of different sizes if possible. Can you just get all types in 2-56 and be good or the tiny (man, I hate tiny) 1-72's or similar?


Also, where do you guys get your pivots? The bigger the better?
 
Have you read Bob Terzoula book on tactical folders. Very in depth and lots of pictures and diagrams. Explains alot of the key points for his liner lock.
The first linerlock I made was in around 1990. I bought a piece fo forged to shape Damascus folder blade already hardened to 60 RcC at the Blade show when it was still in Tenn. .
I was so pschyed . I got home and started on it right away . I worked on it for about 2 years. I should have never rushed into it .
Do not start with a piece of Damascus . I live in Ct. and was friends of Bud Hubbard . He designed precision engineered damascus and had a patent on it.
Finally I brought the knife in parts to him how much he would charge me to finish the knife.
He gave me the best advise and that was to sit down and finish it myself . Start with polycarbonate for the outside liners. Use varying sizes of test pins you can make of brass with a slight head on them .Layout your pattern that you drew up and transfer that to the plastic parts ,including the leaf for the lock that I use for a frame lock . If something dosen't fit right adjust it and cut another piece of plastic till you are satisfied.
Once you are satisfied make a sketch with actual dimensions on it and start with the steel.
Trust me this works.
When Mr. Hubbard passed away his wife called me to see if I knew of anyone that would buy his knifemaking materials from. I did buy quite alot including machinery , but what also was in there were alot of his working polycarbonate folders .
Thanks and good luck,
JZ
 
I think it is a visualization thing for me.

When I built my first grinder, I had it all planned out in my head and built it with no surprises. Same with my Hydraulic press and the treadle hammer and the etcher and the stencil light box and many, many other things.

I cannot build a folder in my mind and therefore I just do not start one. There are too many possible things to screw up and I have not avoided them in my mind yet.

I am bad that if I am not sure if I can complete something, I don't want to start it.

That is my roadblock.

I never believed that I could not make one, just can't get my head wrapped around it yet.

Thanks to all that have replied so far. It is always great to have support.

Bob,
That's why I think picking up a cheap-o folder with screwed together construction is a good idea to get a start, it will give you the basics to "get your mind wrapped around it", I have't done it yet. Mainly because I'm not so sure I'm ready for that big of a jump ...just yet. I did get a kit from Boss made by Great Lakes Water Jet, it's a quality little kit (great steel) that is as basic a start as there is. It is the blade and the liners, that's it. It's a slip joint, my LEAST favorite of all knife designs, not that I don't appreciate a finely made slippy. But, my choice to make (because it's what I like) would be a liner lock, or possibly a lock back. But it does have a BAD A$$ wharn clip blade on it!!! If I ever tackle that one and I do pull it off, it will be pretty cool, might even change my perception of Slip Joints! I may go through my pile of crappy knives to see what's in there. I do know I like the open construction, the ones with the stand offs, or maybe their called spacers that go between the liners and scales, it leaves the knife handle mostly open so if you get dirt or whatever in there it's fairly easy to get it cleaned out. I know for me it has to be an obsession, to complete it if it's just a goof around kinda thing, it's a waste of time and materials. Because I won't have the drive it takes to totally commit to it! Just some of my ideas, hope you get it figured out, I've got a BIG chopper to go finish, that I think is going to be seriously NICE, Y'all have a great day, Rex
 
OK, now on to another question.

I see where some people use washers and some relieve the area around the pivot by removing material. Is there a preferred way of doing this? Washers or relieving?

I have seen a couple methods of removing material when relieving, what is a good way if you don't have a mill?
 
OK, now on to another question.

I see where some people use washers and some relieve the area around the pivot by removing material. Is there a preferred way of doing this? Washers or relieving?

I have seen a couple methods of removing material when relieving, what is a good way if you don't have a mill?

A Mill!!:D

Some use a carbide cutter on a dremel.

I was thinking of trying a flat ended round set in a dremel with the router attachment and then just set the depth a little and run it flat.
Not sure if it will work but I will try anything once:eek:
 
One way I have heard of but never tried is.. Cut a piece of micarta say 1.5" x 0.5" drill a hole and glue a pin through that hole. Then glue a piece of sandpaper to the end of it as wide as you need your recess to be leaving a gap from the pin to the sand paper as wide as you want you washer to be. You can mount that in your drill press or a dremel and put the other end of the pin in the pivot hole. It will spin around and sand off the clearance leaving a washer around the pin.
 
Also this thread was started a week ago now.. we should be seeing wip pics or mockups at least by now :D
 
Bob on the milled washers most of the guys I know go to .007 to .008 deep to mill the recess. Ryan minchew also has a thread ongoing where he etched the recess with his etcher.
 
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I thought of etching it. Can you provide a link to that thread (is it on knifedogs)?

Seemed like it would be a good idea but I was keeping it to myself in case it did not work. If it did work I was going to tell everyone and be the next big hero, guess Ryan beat me to it.

I have a lot of 2-56 screws and some taps so I think the first folder will be a liner lock that is about 7"-8" long and will use all 2-56 screws.

I have a couple of 3/16" barrel pivots and a couple of 1/8" barrel pivots.

I do not have any TI for liners and am kinda bummed about that but I can use some stainless for the first one. Not sure how the lock will work with it, wish I had some TI but no cash for that right now. Besides I will probably need enough for several mistakes.
 
Bob it under Custom Knife Forum. It is on page 15 on Ryan Minchew WIP - his making of a folder is very detailed and tells you a lot with different comments from other makers. I go back to it all the time when I have questions about how I am doing it.
 
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