What kind of steel is my file?

B

Brad Lilly

Moderator and Awards Boss
Hi All

I'm a confirmed junkyard rat, I love to scrounge stuff. My latest haul at the local junkyard included a black diamond file. The file is 16" long with a 3 1/2" long rat tail and 1 1/2" at its widest point. I have never seen a black diamond file around here so I'm assuming its old? and may have good steel in it? I avoid new files they seem to be some funny alloy.

Brad
 
Maybe some W-1 or 1095 . Some file companies used different types of steel , depends on what it was being marketed for ?
 
It can also depend on the grade of file with some companies. Some companies market files that are made from high carbon, shallow hardening steel along with case hardened low to mid carbon steel economy files. If you are determined to use recycled steel you can test it by cutting off a section, austinize it, quench in water, then striking it with a hammer to see if it shatters. You can also compare the spark pattern from grinding with a known steel. It's best to start out with the known steel and not have to guess on carbon content and heat treatment.

Doug
 
Diamond files are good steel , more than likely w-1 . most files are treated for maximum hardness . You can usually tell steel type by manufacturer. Cleveland files are another old one ., also good steel w-1 . Diamond files were quite expensive in thier day . So no need to guess on HT . Knowing the maker will give you a hint of what the steel is .nicholson is known to use a particular steel type . No sense in spark testing nicholson files
 
Thanks Guys I was not sure what it was made from. W-1 is a steel I have never worked with, hopefully I can make something with a hamon/temper line.
 
W-1 is a water hardening steel thus the "W" designation . But, if you''ve never tried water I would use a good low viscosity oil . Like parks 50 or if you can find it 20 weight non - detergent motor oil. As Doug said ,you need to normalize it and HT it. Some makers just grind a knife out without HT . I find the temper to be a little hard for knives .W-1 will take a nice hamon ... good luck. If doing a hamon , I would temper at 400 degrees for 1 hr only . Anymore may affect the quality and activity of the hamon . Heat is the worst enemy of a differentially treated blade. ...
 
I doubt if it's W-1, "Black Diamond" files test out at 1.25 carbon so higher than W-1.Even though I mostly use 1095 and 5160 lately I still look for those files and pick them up when I can.I got one last week at the flea market for a buck.Dave
 
Question , If it not w-1 or w-2 what do you propose it is ?? Black diamond files was owned and operated by Nicholson files , who are known to use W-1 and W-2 in thier files . You have to remember that these are old files , and being vintage (circa) 1911 or so, they did not have a lot of fancy Tool steels . I believe it was a modified w-1 or w-2 . Diamond files were known to have a special HT , that they claim was unknown to other file makers .http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUS-borT...nklinInstitute/1922-BlackDiamondFileWorks.asp. according to thier old records they used W-1 ,W-2, 1095 ???? Black diamond crucible steel ( W-1) has a carbon content between 0.70- 1.50 http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php scroll down to W-1 steel
 
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Interesting, your probably right, pays to do the research.I stand corrected and will continue to try and find old "Black Diamond" files.They do make a great knife.Dave
 
Dave, They sure do , I like making knives from old known types of steel . I must have a few hundred files , I talked the wife into looking at yard sales for black diamond or Cleveland , nicholson. She got carried away . She did come up with some biiig Farrier files made in Ireland , seem to be real high carbon based on spark test . When you forge them out they look like alligator skin . I forged this one out of a old Cleveland file for Dwayne ( leatherman) . the brass guard is being engraved by another buddy of mine , It should be finished soon .

Bubba
 
I love to make little, full-tang hunters out of Nicholson files. They use 1095 now and used w1 in the past. At least their higher grades of files are certainly these alloys. There was a time when they accidentally bought a batch of steel that was supposed to be 1095 but spec'd at 1090 so they sold the round bars cheap to a lot of smiths. They are pretty specific in their requirements so they don't have to re-tool the factory, I guess.

Anyway - full-tang hunter. Just cut part of the file off, grind off the teeth or not and go with the "scale on the spine" look. This is the kind of knife I make just for fun and gifts. Forge the profile and bevel of a short blade. Leave what will be the tang alone except to use the cross-peen to swell the end so that the heel of the knife wraps around your hand a little. You can grind and file the tang to the desired shape. Also, I like to give the tange a couple of taps to bend it down just a little to help the grip.

Leave the spine un-polished, and if you want beat the heck out of it at high heat with a ball peen.

After that, normalize really carefully at least 3 times on descending heats.

then, for fun (and one of the best reasons to do this) - clay it for heat treat and quench in warm water or warm water for 3 and then into oil.

lots of fun.

Here are 4 different blades from Nicholsons, all made before I really learned to even polish hamons.

full tang hunter hamon old file scale 2 004.jpg
batch o blades with hamons 005.jpg
batch o blades with hamons 031.jpg
batch o blades with hamons 009.jpg
kc
 
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