I must be too stupid to make hidden tang knife

M

Michael Minto

Guest
I always have a difficult time fitting a guard to the ricasso of a hidden tang knife. I just can't seem to close-up that last 1/16" or 1/32" or so between the brass/whatever and the knife steel where they meet. Tonight, I even overly exaggerated the cut-out in my guard so it was larger than the width of the knife, and the "height" of the curve where the ricasso meets the tang. I mean, there is extra space between the guard and the knife steel, and I STILL cannot get the guard to close-up the last bit of space where it needs to go. Can anyone tell me what god I offended, or law of space and time that I'm violating? HELP! Thanks, Mike
 
There is a high spot *somewhere* on the bottom of one of those shoulders. That, or the shoulders aren’t square and level to each other.

Have you tried putting some layout dye (or steal your wife’s lipstick) on the bottom of the shoulders? Slide the guard into place and see what is hitting or not hitting.

Fitting guards sucks. It just does. A file guide is an absolute must or else you will chase your tail.
 
thanks, john...i'll try the layout dye trick. i appreciate it. mike
 
what is you guy's opinion of the shape of the shoulders, from ricasso to tang? i've read that curved is stronger than a straight 90 degree angle - i'm very interested in that, too. thanks again, all.
 
Everyone I have learned from has told me rounded is better and less likely to break at the junction. I learned from blacksmiths so I am not sure if it is the same on a stock removal blade. Not too many cold shuts to worry about on SR . When I do stock removal I still round them though just to be safe because I have never asked if there is a difference. I say all of that to say this. I have always found it easier to fit a guard when the shoulders are rounded.
 
Some bit of a rounded shape.

The slot in your guard can be longer than the tang is wide, so that rounded part doesn’t matter. I am of the opinion that the slot doesn’t have to be an exact replica of the tang.

The key is that the shoulders sit square on the guard like a shelf, the guard is square to the blade, and the slot thickness is equal to the blade (at max) to avoid gaps.

Also- this is where a milling machine becomes worth its weight in gold- the slot only needs to be about .100 thick. The back side of rhe guard can have a wide slot so that you are in essence fitting a lip to the blade, not a huge chunk of metal.
 
Michael Minto said:
I always have a difficult time fitting a guard to the ricasso of a hidden tang knife. I just can't seem to close-up that last 1/16" or 1/32" or so between the brass/whatever and the knife steel where they meet. Tonight, I even overly exaggerated the cut-out in my guard so it was larger than the width of the knife, and the "height" of the curve where the ricasso meets the tang. I mean, there is extra space between the guard and the knife steel, and I STILL cannot get the guard to close-up the last bit of space where it needs to go. Can anyone tell me what god I offended, or law of space and time that I'm violating? HELP! Thanks, Mike
Click to expand...


You are not on your own my friend,believe me.

I have just completed my first Bowie with guard and nearly tore out the few strands of hair I had left.
I have learned fast to keep everything square, sharp and only file a couple of thou at a time when the fitting is close..

I used Araldite liquid weld for fastening guard to blade as I do not have proper brazing gear, I fear it will not last although it feels very strong now.
Good luck.
 
Michael Minto said:
what is you guy's opinion of the shape of the shoulders, from ricasso to tang? i've read that curved is stronger than a straight 90 degree angle - i'm very interested in that, too. thanks again, all.
Click to expand...

Well I just learned something new. I had never heard of rounding the shoulders. I always thought everything had to be completely square. Very interesting.
 
Dan,

Yes, from what I read, squared-off shoulders may pose the risk of being "stress risers", possibly causing the knife to fail under hard use. While more difficult to fit-up, rounded shoulders from ricasso to tang give more steel and less chance of failure.
 
For me, the key is in how I build tapers into the blade/tang. All of my knives are basically an elongated diamond shape when viewed from the spine (top)...... the more pronounce the taper on a hidden tang, the easier it is to make a "gap free" fit. I learned long ago that knifemaking is about conducting one step, in order the set up the next. Without the taper (both ways) in a hidden tang, there are few people I know of who have the patience and skills to create a gap free guard fit on a hidden tang......unless of course they are filing a shelf all the way around with a file guide, and using JB weld to keep the guard there. ;)
When cutting the hole in the guard material, it's not a "squared" hole, but rather a tapered hole, with the smaller part of the hole being that part that faces the blade/butts up to the shoulders. I file/fit, and file/fit until the guard is approx. 1/2" from the shoulders..... then it gets "press fitted" into it's final position (that's fancy words to say I use a "fork" made of micarta, and drive it into place with a hammer). Of major importance is the guard material you choose...... brass, nickel Silver, and copper have a lot of "spring" to them....meaning they can be "press fit" into place, popped back off and the face side finished, then tapped back into place. If you choose mild steel, or any of the stainless guard materials, you'll have to file/fit a LOT more, and get within a few thousandths before press fitting......those materials simply don't have the elasticity/deformation characteristics. Here's a link to a video on KnifeMakerTraining.com on the very subject......... https://gumroad.com/l/edoIE
 
Daniel Macina said:
Well I just learned something new. I had never heard of rounding the shoulders. I always thought everything had to be completely square. Very interesting.
Click to expand...

I think there are two different ideas being discussed here.

The shoulders themselves do need to be square on the bottom to sit flush on the guard face.

This rounded angle being discussed is the angle of the transition from the tang to the shoulder.
 
ed, thanks. i've actually made some pretty nice hidden tang knives, if i may say so myself :); but for me they are a real pain, especially the V-42 clone i'm working on right now. and with an aluminum guard, i think it's going to be even more of a challenge (if i read correctly that was the material they were made from). hey, ed, also - are you machining the "side taper" of your tang with a grinder, or filing it by hand, just to ask).
 
John Wilson said:
I think there are two different ideas being discussed here.

The shoulders themselves do need to be square on the bottom to sit flush on the guard face.

This rounded angle being discussed is the angle of the transition from the tang to the shoulder.
Click to expand...

Ahh! Thank you. Always learning something!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top