I am shooting high for an idea

wall e

wall e

Well-Known Member
I know that forge welding takes time and practice and making cable damask is a big feat to do properly. What I am asking of the experienced forging wizards of hammer wielding is how much of the deep end am I diving into over my head as a newbie? Y'all arent gonna hurt my feeler by being honest. So lets hear it.
 
There was a time in my career when I used to advise new folks to start out with cable, but over time I came to realize I was giving bad advice. Forge welding cable can be difficult for even experienced forgers. My advice is to start out with straight laminates. The key being to choose the steels you use wisely. Many times I have spoken of "compatability" when choosing steels to combine in damascus. Different steel types have different contraction and expansion rates when heated and cooled....the key in creating successful forge welds is to choose steels that offer good contrast in the finished product, but also have similar contraction and expansion characteristics. Right now, IMO, there is no better overall combination for damascus then 1080 and 15N20 steels. They are very similar in makeup, with the exception of 15N20's nickel content. They are very easy to forge weld, and because of the similarities, you can do things with this combination that many other combos simply will not tolerate.

Long story short....skip the cable, and use straight laminates....IF you want to have the best chances for success.
 
Thanks ed. I kind of figured it was a advanced technique but am wanting the advice and may try later for this idea. It would be my time and the fuel wasted to attempt it and not get it right. When I do get it down and right the supply of cable around here is quite vast l9ts of logging companies and friends who work for several. Lol will have to get some steel and flux and give it a whack. Lol
 
How much force will be needed to create this pattern using chainsaw chain? I have as I said a timber comunity scrap support team. I saw a you tube fail of trying to forge weld saw chains so, I know what not to do.

d7d87ec5aa3feda1f0785d01b5122f0a.jpg
 
Forge welding any type of "chain" is very challenging (much more so then cable). Much of the success or failure rate depends on technique, and the type of chain you start with. The less "air space" in a chain, the eaiser it is to achieve good, clean welds. Personally, I will make it for a novelty, but won't offer it for sale.....just too many unknowns in the base materials.
 
Ok thanks Ed. May try and make something after getting the forge built. Just more or less researching the potential projects that have thought of and had suggested.
 
Many of the kinds of "Stuff" Chain saw blades you will get from your pals in the logging industry will be old rusty, oily and dirty stuff.

I am a stock removal maker and I am a rank amateur when it comes to forge welding and have really only watched and taken a turn at the power hammer in pounding out a billet that people in the know were making but I have one Tidd Bit of info to share with you.

Get NEW 1080 and 15N20 steels for your first billet or two so you can learn the process with the best chance of success. Then once you have creating a usable billet of Damascus with nice clean welds you can have a frame of reference for how to do it right and have a much better chance using all of the old mystery steel rusty stuff.

Stay safe and have fun.
 
Its interesting that you ask about making damascus and I would encourage you to try it. My damascus making skills far exceed my ability to forge a knife. When I started blacksmithing as a hobby, Damascus was my main goal and many people tried to talk me out of it stating it took advanced skill levels. I tried anyhow and there was a lot of frustration with cold shuts and poor welds, but I kept on trying. I now really cool patterned billets and love the l;ook and feel of pattern welded steel.

Advice given it as good as it gets. Use flat stock 1084, 1095, 15N20 to learn. Avoid chains, cables, etc.

In addition, you must prep the steel piece to get good welds. You also have to learn to judge steel temps and not try to force things to happen. Everything needs to be just right and it happens!
 
Will see what santa brings me for christmas rhino the chains I got are oily but rust free. They came off a processor not a run into the dirt an rocks saw. I know that the oil has to come off before I attempt anything. Will try and get santa to bring me some 1080 and 15N20 for christmas or after I still have to finish building my forge with out rushing through the build and skimping on parts.
 
wall e said:
Will see what santa brings me for christmas rhino the chains I got are oily but rust free. They came off a processor not a run into the dirt an rocks saw. I know that the oil has to come off before I attempt anything. Will try and get santa to bring me some 1080 and 15N20 for christmas or after I still have to finish building my forge with out rushing through the build and skimping on parts.
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Well hold onto that chain for a little later if you can. Years ago at a S, Cal knife makers hammer in I watched a guy tac weld and then load an old Harley drive chain into a piece of muffler pipe, shake/vibrate another powder steel in to fill the voids, and weld heat, then beat it into some cool chain Damascus. He had a few billets in various stages to show us the whole process in a afternoon.

He had done it for years and knew exactly what to do! Someday I will have a shop set up for forge welding.
 
The BEST way is to use a longer piece of the actual material that is being formed into damascus. You will see many people struggle with the handle breaking off and needing to be re-welded on and using a longer piece of the actual stock prevents this.
 
That sounds like it was a great day to watch. Will check into some steel after I get my forge built.
 
This is what I mean about the handle....You can see it is a longer piece of the actual stock so it wont break off. Saves time and frustration.
billet.jpg
 
Ok is what I was thinking you meant. One of the close to middle layers being the handle. I'm using the junk I have for my forge, an old 15 gal compressor tank. May be a bit bigger than I need but is what I have.
 
And when doing damascus, you will need to get to know your forge well as temperature control and reducing environments help facilitate the weld by offering the right environment for forge welding. Many people use gas forges, but I do fine with coal.
 
wall e said:
Ok is what I was thinking you meant. One of the close to middle layers being the handle. I'm using the junk I have for my forge, an old 15 gal compressor tank. May be a bit bigger than I need but is what I have. 
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Walt,
I got a few good tips out of that Jesse James Video we have in Bruce Bumps forum from when Jesse was learning how to forge weld from Jerry Fisk MS. I plan on watching that a few more times.

If it says " Pay up sucker" when you click on it? Just click on it a few more times. Jesse gave it to us to watch.
 
Th.anks rhino. Will watch a few more times. I think Im going to play with the forge after its built. I can get lots of steel to learn with for cheap.
 
Steve's right.
The one longer peice lasted through the second re-stack before it burnt off. It also helps to keep part of the handle piece on the anvil when whacking it. If you don't, the handle tends to rock back and forth till it breaks off.



Rudy
 
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