Forge Press - Buy Once, Cry Once....

M

Matt Kirby

Active Member
I read many threads where someone is considering saving a few bucks on a knife grinder and the message from those that have been around the block is consistent.....buy from one of the top 3 or 4. It’ll last a lifetime and you’ll never regret it. I’m grateful for those that have mentored me and happy that I listened to their advice.

All that said, It’s time for me to get serious about a forge press and I want to spend my money right. Although I feel that I could build my own, I have little interest as it seems to cost a lot for the right components making savings minimal and seems time consuming. Am I correct? I have a demanding job and am busy with a teenage daughter, so shop time and money are both very valuable to me.

I’m intrigued by three presses. The Coal Iron Works 16+ and 25T, Big Blu 50T, Anyang 25 or 50. There is very little info on the Anyang out there so I have no idea on cost comparisons. One press is a C frame while the other two are H frame. How do these two stack up? How do they perform? Expected life and service of machine with all maintenance performed? Other companies I’m overlooking?

Please share your experience, knowledge, and opinions. I want to buy once and cry once rather than waste my time and money trying to save a few hundred bucks.

Let’s discuss the top forge presses out there that I will never regret buying!
 
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Its funny you should ask because I was just sitting down to post a one year review of my Coal Iron 12 ton press. Its not as big as the ones you are looking at but it will give you an idea of how Coal Ironworks was to deal with. I will post it shortly. I have only used the Coal Ironworks press but I highly recommend them.
 
For years I owned/worked on a Carlisile "C" frame press. On the plus side.... about 270 degrees or working radius. On the down side, FLEX.... and I don't think you can reinforce a "C" frame enough to stop the flex.... I never could. Eventually, around the 10 year mark, the bottom die holder broke loose, and it was a MAJOR PAIN to repair...and I never did get it 100% the way it was originally.

So, due to that experience, I strongly urge the "H" frame press.

Secondly, and even more important, for safety sake, NOTHING small then a 6" diameter cylinder...PERIOD. I know there are a lot of presses out there using smaller cylinders, but anyone doing so is simply living on borrowed time..... UNLESS they have a bleeder valve in the system, adjusted correctly for the weakest component in the press. Problem there is that when you lower the PSI, you lower the tonnage. I've seen time and again, people running 4-5" cylinders on forging presses.... with system pressures WAY beyond the max. of their lines and/or fittings. That is a death wish....that sooner or later will come try.

I just had a local friend buy a press out of Missoula MT. I'll check in with him and find out the specifics.

Out the those you listed, I have had experience with both of the Coal Ironworks presses. and the Big Blu..... personally, I wasn't impressed by either. I've heard good thing on the Anyang 25, but very little on the 50.
 
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I've had experience on the big blue and both coal iron works. They are not bad presses. The best C frame press I used was from backbone Ironworks, which unfortunately stopped making them last year. Because of cost I ended up building my own H frame. I think all in all I had about $1800 in mine and it works fine for what I use it for. But I also had friends that could weld it up for me, so that saved a bunch on cost. Riverside machine also has an H frame at both 24 and 50 ton. If I had to replace mine I'd probably look at the anyang 25, but that's just me
 
Here's a link to the outfit I was talking about. My friend purchased the single cylinder model, but I've not heard his opinion of it.
After looking them over and seeing the price, I personally think they want too much money for the double cylinder model versus what you get for that money.
Power is also a concern for many people between the models. You're going to have to have a 220V/50amp circuit to run the 7.5hp model. The single cylinder model (3hp) would require a 220v/20amp circuit.

https://gilmorepresses.com/presses/
 
Chris Railey said:
Its funny you should ask because I was just sitting down to post a one year review of my Coal Iron 12 ton press. Its not as big as the ones you are looking at but it will give you an idea of how Coal Ironworks was to deal with. I will post it shortly. I have only used the Coal Ironworks press but I highly recommend them.
Click to expand...
Looking forward to the review of the 12 ton press. Watching the videos they have it seems like it would do all I would ever plan to need from a press.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
On the down side, FLEX.... and I don't think you can reinforce a "C" frame enough to stop the flex.... I never could.
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I've been using the CoalIronworks 25-ton press for almost a year now, and it's "C" is 1.5" plate that's 6" wide at the top arm, and 13" wide on the vertical arm. I haven't noticed any flex when maxing out the press so far.
There's a number of folks in the NWBA who have Gilmore presses and everyone I've talked to raves about them. But there may be a little bit of bias because he's been a longtime member....
 
Just a couple more thoughts, based on my experiences using forging presses.... Beside what I mentioned about minimum cylinder size, there are a couple of other things that are "must haves" for me to even consider buying a particular press.

1. MUST have a foot pedal operating mode. Beside convenience, having both hands free to hold/manipulate a billet is a major safety factor. On Orange Crush (my press), I have both an air operated foot pedal control, and a mechanically operated hand control. Honestly, the foot pedal is so easy/convenient, that I rarely use the hand control.

2. Shielding for parts/hoses that are exposed to high heat. Most folks who build/sell presses have learned over time that this is a necessity. The place most often overlooked is the backside (the side away from the user).... a LOT of the hot scale and/or other hot stuff ends up on that side of the press, so it's only smart of have shielding or something to divert hot scale or other hot items away from hoses, electrical wires/wiring, or other critical components.

3. Dies that are easily/quickly changed. Dies that are held in place by bolts are a bad deal for most presses. Why? Often times the repetitive heating/cooling will "freeze" the bolts in place (if you forge enough). You either have to constantly remember to spray the threads down with graphite or anit-seize, pretty much every time you remove/reinstall them.... and beside that, it's just plain time consuming to loosen, remove the bolts, put different dies in place, and tighten down the bolts.....all while they are usually far too hot to handle with bare hands.
So what's the answer? Die holders that use dies that slide into place. In fact, dies that slide into place, and have some play in the way they mate up to the die holders, can save you from "hard breaking" your press.
While it might seem that dies that are rigidly in place would be a good thing..... I totally disagree. It's all about understand the kinds of, and the amount of forces you deal with in a forging press..... I have seen far too many presses get broken in major ways, because the dies where locking in place, and caused other press parts to twist or tweak to the point of cracks, splits, or weld breaks.

And finally, a word on dies. If you're new to forging presses, don't waste time, money, or effort, trying to find die materials that will hold up.... it won't happen.
Example: Before I had enough press experience/knowledge to understand it, I spent a big wad of money and made press dies out or D2 steel, thinking they would last forever..... NOT! Due to the intense/repetitive heat, any material used for press dies, that is "heat treated", will quickly get fully annealed out to it's softest state... and deform.
Just resign yourself to building dies out of typical A36 hot roll. Buy pieces that are the sizes you need, and then tack weld them to your die plates in such a way that you can easily get at the weld with an angle grinder. That way when they have deformed too much, you simply zip off the tack weld(s), put a new piece in place, and tack weld it. I've been doing this for literally years on the same die plates.
There are exceptions of course....but it would be for dies that see minimal exposure to the heat....such as the round 52100 dies that I use for creating the peens on my angle peen hammers.... they get a single press at a time, and have significant cool down time between presses.
 
I have been wanting a press for a couple years now. My current situation financially won't allow for it. That said it hasn't dampened my research! If I had the money I believe I would buy the 24T Uncle Als press. It is an H frame press, has easy to change and make dies, was the primary press on Forged in Fire until this year, is relatively short (a concern for my shop), relatively light (if I remember 600 and some change pounds?). Please note I have no experience on a press, this is just what I thought would work for me. Good luck with what ever you get!!
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
MUST have a foot pedal operating mode.
Click to expand...
I'll add that I don't use the foot pedal on the Coal Ironworks press because, IMO, it's in an awkward place, about 8" off the ground, so that I'm basically balancing on my left foot while forging when using the foot pedal. Now I will add that the owner of the press had them modify their original design a few ways because she had shoulder surgery, and so I'm not sure if this would be an issue on their normal model.
 
Wow! Thank you for the candid feedback and reviews. Ya’ll pointed out things that I hadn’t considered.

The safety features mentioned are something on the front of my mind. This was the reason that I had originally considered the Uncle Al’s press as I don’t believe there are any hoses to deal with and the Anyang appears to have everything concealed. Then I noticed that Kevlar shielding was being installed on hoses from other builders. I appreciate the minimum 6” cylinder and hose shielding tips on the backside.

I knew that there had to be other presses out there I was unaware of. Big Blu and Coal Iron were my top two candidates based solely on internet searching, but after reviewing the Gilmore I’ve put it ahead of Big Blu. One of them being that Gilmore is only 300 miles from my house.

I know that you can typically do small work with a large machine, but not large work with too small of a machine. To be honest I’m really leaning on going with a 50T press (knowing it’s likely overkill), but I do see some cool reviews on much smaller and faster presses that keep me awake at night reading about.

Ed - I’d love to hear your friends thoughts on his Gilmore press. This machine has quickly moved it’s way to the top of my list.
 
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