Clay quenching problems

taylormadeknives

taylormadeknives

Well-Known Member
I have been having a few problems the last few times with my hamon coming out way lower than I applied the clay. Does anyone know what's going on? How can I remedy this? Never had trouble before with 1084 on hunter style knives. The steel I seem to be having trouble with is 1095. I purchased it from Aldo, so I'm sure the steel isn't the problem. I am using Rutlands furnace cement and using my heat treat oven. I have been setting the temp at 1450 and doing a 5 minute soak. The steel has been normalized prior to applying clay. I am quenching in McMaster Carr fast quenching oil that has been preheated. I really don't know what to do. Any help would be great

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taylormadeknives said:
I have been having a few problems the last few times with my hamon coming out way lower than I applied the clay. Does anyone know what's going on? How can I remedy this? Never had trouble before with 1084 on hunter style knives. The steel I seem to be having trouble with is 1095. I purchased it from Aldo, so I'm sure the steel isn't the problem. I am using Rutlands furnace cement and using my heat treat oven. I have been setting the temp at 1450 and doing a 5 minute soak. The steel has been normalized prior to applying clay. I am quenching in McMaster Carr fast quenching oil that has been preheated. I really don't know what to do. Any help would be great

4a3u2u7e.jpg


7uvygy7u.jpg


e4ypesun.jpg
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My first guess would be the speed of the oil, especially if it was all working with 1084 but then went south with the 1095. Oversoaking should pull the line under the clay an wash it out, so if anything you may be under-austenitizing due to either the 1450F or the carbide condition of the steel going in, but I would doubt either of these when the more likely possibility is the quenchant not quite cooling fast enough to keep things tight to the clay. !084 has around .75 seconds to beat pearlite, 1095 has around .5 seconds.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
My first guess would be the speed of the oil, especially if it was all working with 1084 but then went south with the 1095. Oversoaking should pull the line under the clay an wash it out, so if anything you may be under-austenitizing due to either the 1450F or the carbide condition of the steel going in, but I would doubt either of these when the more likely possibility is the quenchant not quite cooling fast enough to keep things tight to the clay. !084 has around .75 seconds to beat pearlite, 1095 has around .5 seconds.
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Thanks for the quick response Kevin, I appreciate it! I just assumed my oil was fast enough. I will be getting something faster. I haven't been able to find any parks 50. What would be a good quenching oil for the 1095 other than the parks?
 
I used an interrupted brine quench while waiting for my fast oil. It's risky, but a place to start us 3 seconds in, three seconds out, and finish with the oil.
 
Warren Krywko said:
I used an interrupted brine quench while waiting for my fast oil. It's risky, but a place to start us 3 seconds in, three seconds out, and finish with the oil.
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I have thought about using brine a few times. I'm not sure I'm willing to lose any blades. It's just so much work to begin with
 
I use DT 48 too. I got it because I found it at a local supplier here in Alberta, whereas I could not find the parks 50.
 
taylormadeknives said:
I have thought about using brine a few times. I'm not sure I'm willing to lose any blades. It's just so much work to begin with
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The riskiest part of the quench is the second half, which is where the commercial oils shine. They are almost as fast as brine for the first half, then are slower for the second half. Brine is fast for the first half, but it gets faster for the second half as the vapour jacket collapses. This is where you get the "tink" from. If you do the first 3 seconds in the brine, but do the last half in oil, the risk is reduced. Its not gone, as you may stress the steel in the 3 seconds, but its less likely. I haven't cracked a blade this way yet, but I know its the risk. With the DT 48, I don't feel the need for the brine anymore.
 
Warren Krywko said:
The riskiest part of the quench is the second half, which is where the commercial oils shine. They are almost as fast as brine for the first half, then are slower for the second half. Brine is fast for the first half, but it gets faster for the second half as the vapour jacket collapses. This is where you get the "tink" from. If you do the first 3 seconds in the brine, but do the last half in oil, the risk is reduced. Its not gone, as you may stress the steel in the 3 seconds, but its less likely. I haven't cracked a blade this way yet, but I know its the risk. With the DT 48, I don't feel the need for the brine anymore.
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I see. I did a bit of research on the DT oil. Looks like it's Maxim's equivalent to Parks 50. Supposed to be pretty fast I guess. I will see if I can find some. No luck with getting Parks 50. Thanks!
 
Not sure where you are, but if you are looking for Parks 50, it can easily be had from Maxim Oil. No problem at all....just gotta have the $$$ for it. I think it was just over $100 for 5 gallons (they don't offer smaller) to be delivered to a town 8 hours away from Fort Worth Texas. Their contact info is: Maxim Oil 208 Shelby Rd, Fort Worth, TX 76140 (817) 293-4645. I have heard good things about DT-48 tho as being a fast oil like the P50. I would highly suggest going the Brine route if you really want the performance the steel can give, but not wanting to fork out the $$$ for the commercial oil. Canola oil heated to 130F comes close to being a fast oil...but not quite there. Parks 50 is a 7 second oil, while 130F canola fall somewhere around 10 seconds. Try the Brine. When you succeed (you will)...you will have a screaming hard blade to really temper back! I feel that brine quenches are seriously seriously discouraged because of the failure rate. I have a feeling that proper pre heat treat grind and sanding technique, proper aust temperature, and proper quenching techniques will give very good repeatable results with minimal failure....that WILL happen don't get me wrong.
 
samuraistuart said:
Not sure where you are, but if you are looking for Parks 50, it can easily be had from Maxim Oil. No problem at all....just gotta have the $$$ for it. I think it was just over $100 for 5 gallons (they don't offer smaller) to be delivered to a town 8 hours away from Fort Worth Texas. Their contact info is: Maxim Oil 208 Shelby Rd, Fort Worth, TX 76140 (817) 293-4645. I have heard good things about DT-48 tho as being a fast oil like the P50. I would highly suggest going the Brine route if you really want the performance the steel can give, but not wanting to fork out the $$$ for the commercial oil. Canola oil heated to 130F comes close to being a fast oil...but not quite there. Parks 50 is a 7 second oil, while 130F canola fall somewhere around 10 seconds. Try the Brine. When you succeed (you will)...you will have a screaming hard blade to really temper back! I feel that brine quenches are seriously seriously discouraged because of the failure rate. I have a feeling that proper pre heat treat grind and sanding technique, proper aust temperature, and proper quenching techniques will give very good repeatable results with minimal failure....that WILL happen don't get me wrong.
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Thanks Stuart, I appreciate the feedback and the info for the Parks. I may as well try the brine quench one of these days. I just have always been hesitant to try it out. Thanks again
 
I got my dt48 from boss don't know if he still carries it. If he don't I believe maxim carries it all so if you search dt48 here on the forums there is a bunch of info on it.
 
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