scandalous! Heresy!

curtisk

curtisk

Well-Known Member
I am fully confident that this topic will stir up the proverbial hornet’s nest, but hey, what the heck. 

I have read many posts from brand-new makers about the possibility of using mower blades as knives. Some people think it is a good idea, but the vast majority says “nay”; vehemently I might add. That being said, I have always been one to take the narrow path (my Momma said I was hard headed) and had to give it a shot. Gentlemen, I must say, I have not been disappointed, not in the least.

It seems that industrial/commercial mower blade steel runs the gamut from 10b38 to a 5160. I have used 5160 for knives and hawk heads and it is a good all around steel. Now, before the “nay” crowd gets out the rope for yours truly, I made a knife out of the former. The edge holding attributes are amazing for such a low carbon content steel. I made 100 cuts through 3/8” grass rope and it would still shave; not just pull hair, but shave like PawPaw’s razor. I really think it will do much more than a 100 cuts but I ran out of rope.
I did some more research on the topic and it seems that the boron added to the steel adds to the “hardenability” of the metal. It has been rated at 48 Rockwell C but on average will yield a 40-45. Now most blade manufacturers utilize Austempering but I used the traditional Austenitizing, quenching (canola oil), and three temper cycles at 450 degrees. The bottom line is it works.

Anyways, I thought I would share my findings. I will submit to whatever punishment (other than drawing and quartering, and of course keel-hauling) my fellow knifemakers conclude is necessary to cure me of my heretical ways, should it be deemed necessary that is.

Regards,

CurtisK
 
The only mower blades I have seen have been wavy and full of holes. I do not forge so I have not tried this shorce. I do have a lot of files and saw blades to work on. This is going to be interesting to watch and see where this goes. Thanks for starting this. Add so pics, a WIP would be neat.
 
This is a photo of the mower blade knife.

This is a photo of the mower blade knife. It is the same one in my file work post.
 

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My experience with lawn mower blades on lawn mowers has not been good, so I wouldn't use one on a knife I made. . . unless I lived in a Mad Max universe! :eek: Unless you know for certain what blades are made with good steel, you can't be sure you are using 5160 or some mediocre stuff. I leave the recycling to turning in my aluminum cans and glass bottles, and buy known steel for my knives.

David
 
I'm glad you're happy with the results that you've gotten. The problem lies with making future knives from those blades; the manufacturer might use steel from a different melt, or a steel with a different chemistry.
 
I think it's all in perspective. Generally when you're fairly new to knifemaking, the goal is to make a "usable" blade, and costs are generally at the forefront of your mind. The problem with using any "recycled" material is consistency. Most newer makers have been exposed to factory type cutlery, and if they make something that will meet or exceed factory blades, they are thrilled, thinking they have achieved the pinnacle of knifemaking. The problem comes when you start making assumptions about recycled materials....let's say that a person purchases one of your blades made from a lawn mower blade. That person shows the knife to a friend, and that friend decides he wants a knife that performs that well. Can you confidently produce another blade of the same quality from a mower blade? If you can, that's great, but more often than not the next mower blade you use will not be the same type of steel, and you will only be able to guess and hope that it comes out as good as the last one.

Then there is the perception of the knife buyer. If you become known as a maker who uses recycled steel, you will forever be considered that by knife buyers, and no matter how advanced you become in fit and finish, you will never be able to demand a higher dollar value for your knives.

Blade Steel is one of the least costly aspects of what we do. Just having the confidence that you can obtain consistent and repeatable results with each blade you build is worth the investment. Finally, there is your reputation to consider....in knifemaking, a person can spend decades building a good reputation, and it only takes one substandard blade to destroy that reputation. Again, it's all in perspective....if knifemaking is just a hobby, and your not too concerned about the future, then using recycled materials may not be any concern to you. On the other hand, if you intent is to sell your knives, and for them and you to build and maintain a good reputation, at some point in time you WILL make the choice to use only new, known steel.
 
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Good advice Ed and well received. Yes, I could see an issue with conistency from the original manufacturer. Depending on the original sue of he material they are goign to cut manufacturing costs where and when they can, so getting ths same material each time would definetly be an issue.
 
I generally agree with everything Ed said above, but do need to point out one caveat:

EdCaffreyMS said:
Then there is the perception of the knife buyer. If you become known as a maker who uses recycled steel, you will forever be considered that by knife buyers, and no matter how advanced you become in fit and finish, you will never be able to demand a higher dollar value for your knives.
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Then there are makers such as our own Ray Richards who are known as artists who largely work with recycled steel and don't have problems selling their knives. I think that the key point here is "artist".
 
Let's face it. Using recycled steel, aka mystery metal, is a crap shoot. Sometimes the dice come up sevens and sometings they come up snake eyes. Personally, I don't want to spend a lot of time making a knife to find out that I have to struggle with the heat treatment to get a usable blade let alone find out that it won't harden. I know that when you're talking about free steel, it's hard to turn down. As a matter of fact, I have a 6' lenght of 1" rebar that I found in my back yard that appears to have enough carbon to be usable and I intend to use it. It was found steel, however, I didn't go looking for it or pay out money in the hopes that I had something useful. I the long run, I still think that it is better to start out with a know steel.

Doug Lester
 
Aside from the issues with recycled steel is one caveat--you used industrial/commercial mower blades.

Many newbies hop onto the forums and read about knives here and there made from "mower blades" and "saw blades" and don't necessarily understand that it's particular mower blades and saw blades. The next thing you know they wonder why the knives they make from their used Wal-Mart 7 1/2 inch circular saw blade doesn't cut so well. "It's L-6, isn't it?"
 
Dan,

Your 100% correct about Ray....but he a rare exception to the rule. There was a time in my career when I used recycled steel exclusively. When I made the switch to only new/known steel, it put me in a different level of knifemaking in the eyes of a lot of buyers. Over the years I have watched the same thing happen to many other makers. Again, it's all about perception....not everyone cares what the steel is, but on the other hand there is a large enough percentage of knife buyers who do. I also think it has to do with some makers just being more anal than others. I openly admit that I'm a picky son of a gun... if a knife is not the absolute best work I can do, then it never leaves my shop. There's just too much at stake in my mind.
 
Ya'll are talking about making knives out of mower blades but I'm thinking about making me some mower blades out of D-2, I'm getting tired of going through two sets per summer on my riding mower.
 
Calvin Robinson said:
Ya'll are talking about making knives out of mower blades but I'm thinking about making me some mower blades out of D-2, I'm getting tired of going through two sets per summer on my riding mower.
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LMAO........


When I started I used some "junk" steel to perfect my hollow grind technique. After that , if I had an idea to make a knife , I used good knife steel. I needed all the help I could get. If I knew what it was for sure , then I knew exactly how to HT it. High Carbon , such as 1095 or 1084 is cheap , why would you use junk steel? I dont get it.
 
I did landscaping for a few years with commercial (Skag) mowers and we had to sharpen, straighten the blades every couple of weeks from hitting rocks. Maybe better heat treating can eliminate those issues.
 
I immagine that lawn mower blades are a trade off like knife blades. They have to be hardenable enough to hold an edge, be soft enough to sharpen easily with a file and tough enough not to shatter if it hits a rock.

Doug Lester
 
I am inherently lazy and stupid. I don't care to guess what I'm working with, too much thinkings involved.

Kinda on the same page as mower blades, saw blades, etc... I've made several file knives, and I think they're cool, and my clients have always gushed that they're "way better than the knife I got at Wally World". But I always kinda wonder... did I temper it just right? Is it REALLY 1095 or W1 or what? Am I SURE it will perform like I think it will? Could it have been better if I knew exactly what I was dealing with?

I will probably make more file knives (I seem to have a slow but steady source of dull files, and a blade is worth a lot more than scrap steel :)) but will always tell my clients that there's a certain amount of "guess-work" involved.

Therefore, I prefer to use brand-new steel that other, much smarter people have proven to be consistent and high-quality. This helps me sleep better at night. There are plenty of goofs I can make on my own, without worrying about the material I started with.

EDIT: Calvin... don't go halfway... if you want SERIOUS mower blades, cough up the cash and make them out of CPM3V! :)

BTW I spent a summer mowing lawns for the county park department, and we swapped blades every single day, so the chipped ones could be sharpened by the maintenance guys. Just sayin'.
 
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Calvin Robinson said:
Ya'll are talking about making knives out of mower blades but I'm thinking about making me some mower blades out of D-2, I'm getting tired of going through two sets per summer on my riding mower.
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:thumbup1: I think the exact same thing when reading mower blade threads, since I don't even think the steel in lawnmower blades are good for lawnmowing. I would say the around 45HRc is probably accurate since these things just don't have the strength to go more than two mowings without resharpening in my yard. So years ago I cut out 1" strips of the edge and welded in L6 (real Crucible L6 with chemistry sheets attached ) inserts and heat treated them to... well lets say a higher level :3: Now I rarely get off the mower since I can just run over anything on my way and only resharpen once or twice a year. And I am really particular about cleanly cutting without fraying the grass, so I like'em sharp! I don't know about D2 but a good high carbon steel heat treated for proper impact toughness and edge holding used on your mower will change your entire perspective about lawnmower blades, much as less knives:3:.
 
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Kevin, I think you may have stumbled into a side job there. I wonder what the demand is for "high performance mower blades for those who are too particular to settle for good enough." :D I bet you could do a run of modified mower blades with L6 inserts and they would sell like hotcakes to the right crowd.

--nathan
 
Cashen-certified "Xtreme Duty" lawn-mower blades, for the discriminating connoisseur of summer labor. I'm down for a set!

As the new guy to the field of knife making, I'm always looking to save money. But, all the work that goes into making a knife sure would be wasted on a piece of pretty metal that won't hold an edge.
 
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