Where to BUY fast Quench like Parks 50?
- Thread starter feraldude
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busted knuckles
Well-Known Member
Yea Rudy, lee said that he thinks it may be the best quench for 1095. He seems to know his stuff about quenching. the only caution he gave me about the PQ 90 was that it needs to be agitated well during the quench, like a pump in the tank or a little propeller. I'll have to work something out that doesn't cause uneven cooling. Any Ideas guys, I'm a K.I.S.S kind of guy so no Rube Goldberg contraptions for me.
Busted,
I've been told several times that agitation is required for the polymers. The best suggestion was for a submersible pump that they use in backyard fish ponds. They come in different sizes and you could thread the electrical cord through pipe so there's no mishaps with a hot blank hitting it. The only place I've seen them is at Harbor Freight so take that with a grain of salt. I may have to try this out just to satisfy my curiousity sometime....but I'm still waiting for your test.
Rudy
I've been told several times that agitation is required for the polymers. The best suggestion was for a submersible pump that they use in backyard fish ponds. They come in different sizes and you could thread the electrical cord through pipe so there's no mishaps with a hot blank hitting it. The only place I've seen them is at Harbor Freight so take that with a grain of salt. I may have to try this out just to satisfy my curiousity sometime....but I'm still waiting for your test.
Rudy
Dan Pierson
Well-Known Member
The other downside I've heard about polymers is that they require constant maintenance, checking of solution concentrations, etc. I've also heard that Don Fogg was doing some testing with them so you might ask him for more direct info.
Dan,
That's where I first got intrigued by the polymer bug (Don's site). I've always liked the idea of being able to formulate your own custom blend for any particular steel. Polymers give you a wide range of speeds for quenching depending on the mix ratio. Constant maintainance and testing would be an issue for the little guy though. I'm still anxious to find out more.
Rudy
That's where I first got intrigued by the polymer bug (Don's site). I've always liked the idea of being able to formulate your own custom blend for any particular steel. Polymers give you a wide range of speeds for quenching depending on the mix ratio. Constant maintainance and testing would be an issue for the little guy though. I'm still anxious to find out more.
Rudy
busted knuckles
Well-Known Member
A pump is probably the simplest solution. as for the poly maintenance, Lee says to just replace your quench once a year but I've heard elsewhere that it's more complicated. If everything boils off at the same rate then there's no change in the concentration and no need to test or maintain the concentration. lot's to learn. being a bladesmith is certainly not static or boring, is it?
and I'm still not sure what the stuff costs. I told him I'd start with the poly since the oil's not available yet but he hasn't got back to me.
and I'm still not sure what the stuff costs. I told him I'd start with the poly since the oil's not available yet but he hasn't got back to me.
Mike Krall
Well-Known Member
Kelly Cupples was mentioned as a seller of Park #50 and Park AAA... If you e-mail Kelly at... octihunter@charter.net ...and ask for a current price list, he will e-mail one to you.
A possible way to get Houghton Oils easier than having the minimum quantity of 5 gal. shipped from eastern Pennsylvania (only place it comes from in that quantity, to my knowledge) is contacting Scott McKenzie and asking him where the nearest Houghton distributor is. Scott is Houghton's metallurgist and quench oil specialist and he posts in BS forum's metallurgy sub-forum. Once you know where the nearest Houghton Oil is, calling the distributor and finding out who they distribute the type of oil you want to may get you a contact for smaller than 5 gallon amounts.
At the time I bought 5 gallons each of Houghto-quench "K" and Houghto-quench "G", cost and shipping to west central Wyoming from eastern PA was a little over $100 per... something like $220 total. At the time it was far and away the largest amount of lump-sum money I had into making knives. I rationalized it by knowing, if I took good care of the oil (didn't flash it, didn't overheat it, didn't let water or dust get into it, filtered it occasionally) that there was nearly no way I was ever going to need any more... that I likely could leave it to someone in my will and maybe they could do the same. Is that a stretch? I don't know for sure... maybe... maybe not. How many blades will 2.5 gallons quench before it needs to be replaced with the other 2.5 gallons still in the pail? Professional heat-treaters run huge (relative) quantities of steel into the same oil before replacement and, if I've learned correctly, often replace their quench oil not because it has lost it's properties but because it is leaving small amounts of deposits on the pieces that costs relatively more money to remove. That's a thing that is not much of a problem in custom knife making.
Mike
PS... Howard Clark posts on BS forum and has put up a lot of his personal experience with polymer quench oils over time.
A possible way to get Houghton Oils easier than having the minimum quantity of 5 gal. shipped from eastern Pennsylvania (only place it comes from in that quantity, to my knowledge) is contacting Scott McKenzie and asking him where the nearest Houghton distributor is. Scott is Houghton's metallurgist and quench oil specialist and he posts in BS forum's metallurgy sub-forum. Once you know where the nearest Houghton Oil is, calling the distributor and finding out who they distribute the type of oil you want to may get you a contact for smaller than 5 gallon amounts.
At the time I bought 5 gallons each of Houghto-quench "K" and Houghto-quench "G", cost and shipping to west central Wyoming from eastern PA was a little over $100 per... something like $220 total. At the time it was far and away the largest amount of lump-sum money I had into making knives. I rationalized it by knowing, if I took good care of the oil (didn't flash it, didn't overheat it, didn't let water or dust get into it, filtered it occasionally) that there was nearly no way I was ever going to need any more... that I likely could leave it to someone in my will and maybe they could do the same. Is that a stretch? I don't know for sure... maybe... maybe not. How many blades will 2.5 gallons quench before it needs to be replaced with the other 2.5 gallons still in the pail? Professional heat-treaters run huge (relative) quantities of steel into the same oil before replacement and, if I've learned correctly, often replace their quench oil not because it has lost it's properties but because it is leaving small amounts of deposits on the pieces that costs relatively more money to remove. That's a thing that is not much of a problem in custom knife making.
Mike
PS... Howard Clark posts on BS forum and has put up a lot of his personal experience with polymer quench oils over time.
If some one has the main contact info Parks or Houghton I will see about bringing some in bulk and reselling it in 5's an 1 gallons. Oil is gawdawful messy to repackage and ship and i have avoided for that reason but it shouldn't be this hard to get either.
Mike Krall
Well-Known Member
Tracy,
If you holler at Kevin Cashen, he is likely going to be able to put you into easy contact with the people you should talk with.
In some forum-yap I picked up on another quench oil company who sounded like they would be happy to work with knife makers. I think Kevin may be working with them on appropriate quenchants and/or ???
Mike
If you holler at Kevin Cashen, he is likely going to be able to put you into easy contact with the people you should talk with.
In some forum-yap I picked up on another quench oil company who sounded like they would be happy to work with knife makers. I think Kevin may be working with them on appropriate quenchants and/or ???
Mike
I have PMd Kevin. I talked to Lee Nevse this morning. Great guy and I ordered some dt-48 and parks 50 for our hammer in next week. He wanted to stress the importance of oil agitation to get consistent results. Now I need to find a source for small pumps. It never ends....
Mike Krall
Well-Known Member
I'm not an expert, Tracy, but I've gotten from Kevin Cashen and "Mete" that simply moving a blade in the quench constitutes agitation... end to end movement... never side to side.
"Mete" discussed a whirlpool type "agitator" somewhere in knife-forum land. Seemed as simple a system as others I've heard discussed... stick blade, edge on, into the outside of the whirl.
Mike
PS -- Who's Lee Nevse?
"Mete" discussed a whirlpool type "agitator" somewhere in knife-forum land. Seemed as simple a system as others I've heard discussed... stick blade, edge on, into the outside of the whirl.
Mike
PS -- Who's Lee Nevse?
Drew Riley
Well-Known Member
Drew Riley
Well-Known Member
I've always thought the same thing Mike. I could very well be wrong though.
BTW, Lee NEVES is the owner of Maxim Oil Co. They've been know to distribute Parks 50 in 5 gallon buckets (I bought my supply from them) and have also developed a number of their own quenchants as well, including a fast quench that I understand to be nearly as good as Parks 50.
Another note, they've probably got the best prices I've seen anywhere (though distributors are about as rare as hen's teeth anyway) on Parks 50.
Mike Krall
Well-Known Member
Thank you for that, Andrew...
When I bought 5 gal. each of Houghto-quench "K" and "G", it was because I couldn't get Parks #50 and AAA. I learned later on they are actually better quench oils that will do the same job, and at the time I bought, cheaper too. I'd love to have messed with Houghton's Bio-quench 700 but I've heard it is very expensive.
Mike
When I bought 5 gal. each of Houghto-quench "K" and "G", it was because I couldn't get Parks #50 and AAA. I learned later on they are actually better quench oils that will do the same job, and at the time I bought, cheaper too. I'd love to have messed with Houghton's Bio-quench 700 but I've heard it is very expensive.
Mike
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I am still working this. I commit to having a slow and fast oil in 5 gallons available as soon as we can get some quotes on 50gallon drums, arrange shipping and repacking supplies and handing equipment. Not sure of the brand yet. Probably Houghton, maybe Parks, maybe both. I do have some oil coming from Maxim oil, their Texaco A reformulation and will list that when it comes in. If I can find suitable shipping containers, I will have oil in one gallon lots also. That will take some time and they will add a bit of expense. The ups and Fedex people will get real grumpy if a package breaks open.
DonL
Well-Known Member
I'd be interested in some of that oil also. Been trying to find some of the Houghton but will settle for whatever I can get.
BTW, if you've ever worked on a UPS or FedEx dock, you'll understand why packages "come open". Never, ever put "Fragile" on a package....it's just asking for it!
BTW, if you've ever worked on a UPS or FedEx dock, you'll understand why packages "come open". Never, ever put "Fragile" on a package....it's just asking for it!
