W2 heat treat Vs. 1095 heat treat?

[McClellan Made Blades]

Oh - when choosing steels for trying to make hamons, you will get the best results using LOW MANGANESE and ZERO CHROMIUM. So, instead of 1084, use low manganese 1075 from Aldo. It heat treats just as simply, only it doesn't have the manganese. Therefore, it is more, "shallow hardening." That is good for hamons. That is why w2 and some of the 1095 out there work so very well for hamons.

If you don't want a hamon, and just want a simple heat treatment, 1084 is probably a little better.

look at the bauernwehr I posted in Bubba-san's forum to see low mang 1075 hamon. The pic is not great, but you get the idea. It is the only alloy that really competes with w2 for hamons. W2 holds edges better, but 1075 is more shock resistant.

I think the rubbing with the rouge is a lot like the pumice, but there is one difference - the pumice is actually LARGER than the grit size that the hamon had been polished to. This larger grit size below the line of the hamon when compared to the polish above the hamon leads to a whitening of the area below the hamon. All of the slightly larger scratches seem whiter in comparison. I don't know how the grain size of red rouge compares to the polish you are getting above the line of the hamon. How fine is red rouge? FF pumice seems to be somewhere around 800 grit (it is really a range, but there are enough particles of this approx size to make it look as if all of the particles are that size).

thanks for sharing. there are several ways to get similar results. It is fun to hear how other people do things.

kc

Kevin,
I picked up some lemon juice tonight, couldn't find it at Walley World in anything bigger than 15oz. bottles, I may have a source to get it by the gallon. Should I completely immerse the blade in a tank of the lemon juice or wipe it on as I have with the PCB? If the pumice will get me better results, I have NO problem getting some to try, the size of the rouge has got to be small because it dissolves in the WD-40. Do you think diamond paste would work? It should be a lot more aggressive. If you look at my pics that I have posted, I have gotten some WICKED SICK hamons, I think the best hamon I've gotten came from some of Aldo's 1095. The BIG stock he has 1 5/8 w X 3/8" thick, I still have some of this stuff left, not much but enough to go after my next big idea, an integral! I read an article in Blade last year that Halley DeRosier wrote about Brazilian Mastersmith Sfredo Rodrigo (1 of my favorite makers, the man in phenomenal!), his statement to her about the design she was working on, he said, "Don't make what is easy, make what is beautiful". This one statement almost haunts me, while inspiring me at the same time. Since then I have been stocking up on every kind of file I have come across.

OK, got a little off topic there, if you look at my avatar, that big nasty chopper was made from 1095 from Aldo, the wildest hamon I have ever made, except maybe the one on my EDC, it's W-2 and it turned out pretty wild! I've gotten great Hamons with Aldo's 1084, and have an idea for HTing it that is a bit different, it is probably an old way of doing it, using a torch to heat up the edge while watching the color climb, while getting the entire blade evenly heated and then quench. I have no idea how well this will work, but I will experiment with just about anything, provided it has the potential to improve my blades.

I'm not sure if you can access the pics I've uploaded if not let me know I'll post a few.

So now, do tell where I can get this pumice? I have no idea what grit the red rouge is, one of the things I failed to mention is that after you get it scraped off and on to the blade I "mix" it with my finger, you can get some hard pieces in the slurry that won't dissolve and will scratch the blade, so I use my finger with a patting motion gently tapping it to mix it with the WD-40, if you find any of those bigger chunks, remove them. I start the initial polish with my bare finger then I use Scott's, "Rags In A Box" heavy duty paper towels. I pretty much polish the bottom half of the blade this way and prolong the polishing as long as I can, I get in no rush doing this, get comfortable, put on some country music and rub rub rub! I've considered doing a video of how I do my Hamons, to share with those that are wanting to learn how to do them, when I was learning how to make a hamon I had some of the best help in the world, Don Hanson III! I think he was a bit amused by my frustrations, it took him and another guy to show me a few things and through shear determination and an extremely understanding wife, I finally got it a little more predictable. I do a lot of hand work on my knives, I'm pretty much finished hand sanding when it goes to HT, so nice to not find a deep scratch after HT!

Have you ever used 1084M? I've seen some wicked Hamons on it, but I don't think Aldo carries it. I buy all of my steel from Aldo exclusively, I know the quality I'm getting, and Aldo is a pretty great guy...for a Yankee:biggrin:! Besides, knife makers have so few in industry that support us, and he has high quality steel made exclusively for us, I'm going to support every company that caters to our needs!

Kevin, do know that this sharing of ideas, generally any of the things we can share with each other, that can help SOMEBODY, heck ANYBODY, is what
Knife Dogs is all about. There are many ways to do any task and learning more about this affliction we call, knife making that makes it a little easier for anyone, is AWESOME to me.

I've got a small W-2 integral I'm working on, plus I'm building a vertical forge, that I think is going to be pretty slick, it is on paper anyway! Hopefully, I'll have some new knives to show soon! Thanks Bro`, Rex

 

[kevin - the professor]

I haven't worked with 1084M. I know it is a little different composition from regular 1084, it may have vanadium and less manganese. I remember some of the serious japanese swordmakers loved that composition/alloy. It had to have less manganese. It would have been a lot like w2, I think. I haven't read the specs in a long time, though. I am guessing.

You can just rub the blade with lemon juice and a little drop of dish soap. Put juice and soap in a bowl, mix together, rub for a few minutes until the blade is all black and looks etched. Hamon black, blade gray. Knock off the oxides, wash, repeat.

I bought pumice from the internet. Just get FF.

I have 2 w2 blades, 1 1095, and one low manganese 1075 all normalized and clayed and drying. I have been experimenting with my new heat treat kiln. I will start new thread when I get these hardened and polished. We will see what temp control can do to help.

take care,
kc

kc