Terminology and 'stuff'

Roger

Well-Known Member
Been lurkin' n learnin' but I have more questions than answers. Can anyone help with the following:

What is and why is a slack belt used?
What are the various grinds and what are they used for?
If you seal a blade in SS foil do you quench it in the foil or remove the foil, thus cooling the metal inside?
Can you 'stabilize' a piece of leather for a set of scales?
What is a good progression of belts when starting a new blade?
Best way to wrap a handle with paracord?
When a handle is wrapped in paracord do you seal or coat it, and with what?
If steels are stacked and welded to make Damascus how do you get the flux inside?
What is the easiest grind for a noob to master?

Some stuff I've learned.

Warm canola oil works good.
Soaking in vinegar really does help get rid of scale.
Old flat truck springs do have cracks.
One wrong move and you can shred an expensive new belt.

Thanks
 
first, Wow that's a lot of questions!

1 I use one for shaping handles or for convexing.
2 The most common are hollow ( very thin edge good for straight razors etc...) Flat ( what I like the most, used for general use. I'm sure bush monkey will disagree!) convex ( very simple strong and sometimes just blunt.) scandi ( one angle on both sides of a blade).
3 you do not quench in foil.
4 Yes but oils work well for sealing porous leather.
5 That's on you'll personally have to work out. I use 40 grit for rough grinding, 180 for final rough grinding, 200 - 600 for the post heat treat finishing.
6 check youtube for a variety of styles and tutorials.
7 personal preference, if you chose to seal some use CA glue.
8 I've never forged! but I don't think flux is involved in that process. just proximity, heat, and pressure.
9 Depends if you use a jig, either flat or convex.


Try searching the forum here for more detailed answers.
 
When forge welding, the flux will run between the bars that are wired or tacked together. Work from the center out to push the flux out from between the bars to expel the flux and any oxidation that it's absorbed. Once the bars are forge welded together you shouldn't have any oxidation between the individual bars and you only need to flux the surfaces that come together once the billet is folded over itself.

As far as the best way to wrap a handle with cord, others may disagree but there isn't one. I strongly favor a solid handle material.

Doug
 
There are a variety of cheap handle materials out there that work much better than any paracord wrap. ^ agreed^
 
There are a variety of cheap handle materials out there that work much better than any paracord wrap. ^ agreed^

A paracord wrap is a "look" that some people enjoy. I don't particularly enjoy antler handles but a lot if people love them.

A wrapped handle will be less resilient then a solid handle. Regardless of what method you end up using remember two things: Don't buy cheap paracord and wrap it super tight. If you don't you are wasting your time.
 
When foil is used, you DO quench in the foil. You place the foil wrapped blade between quench plates, cool the blade, then remove the foil.
 
Here is a few I can help you with.

Take the palten out of a grinder and you have a slack belt,
Works great for handle sculpting, convex grinding and sharpening. You can use different belts that have thinner or heavier backing to adjust the slack.

I use a Full flat grind and a convex or saber grind the most. There is also a hollow grind and then there are all kinds of combinations of those three. Scandi is a Saber edge on flat bar stock I don't think it's a grind technically, but It is called one.

Yes you can have leather stabilized. I don't mean mini wood hardener. Send it to a company that does professinal stabilization. Like WSSI or K&G Faron Moore here at Knifedogs. Look around the Forums for him.

My progression of belts is what I learned from the late Bob Loveless. Not these exact grits, but he said to double the number for each belt or as close as you can from whats available.

I use 36 grit ,then 60 Grit then 120 grit then a 220 grit all ceramic then you can keep going with 400 grit, then a 600 or 800 or hand finish or use cork or scotch brite belt finish. depending on where you want to finish?

What kind of knives you want to make determines what grind to use? So tell us what you want to make and what equipment you have and we may be able to suggest a grind for you?

I hope this helps.
 
These may have all been answered to your satisfaction, but I'll put my .02 in:

What is and why is a slack belt used?
Slack belt is where you don't have anything backing (or behind) your belt, such as a flat platen, or a contact wheel. This gives "slack" in your belt and allows it to conform to inside and outside curves. It also typically provides more surface contact with the belt, as it is conforming to your piece, rather than just grinding on the highest/closest point.

You typically use slack belt grinding when you want to contour or round something over. J-flex belts are great for slack belting, as they are much thinner and tend to conform better. I use slack belt when shaping handles, rounding spines, and convexing edges. Keep in mind that when using thinner, more flexible belts, things will grind differently than if using a platen, contact wheel, or even just a heavier belt. For example: handle pins are harder than the average handle material, and will grind much more slowly, thus making them feel "proud" of the immediately surrounding material. Take extra care when grinding around pins to make sure that the surrounding surface remains flush and even. Make sense?

What are the various grinds and what are they used for?
IMO, grinds often boil down to preference, though geometry can and does play a role in efficiency and ultimate use.
Thinness at the edge, as well as edge bevel is ultimately the deciding factor of how well the knife works in any case, IMO.
Convex is great for chopping and adds strength behind the edge, comparatively speaking. Full Flat grinds is good for slicing, Hollow can be a good slicer, but it's main advantage is that you can sharpen it more (or remove more metal from the edge)before the edge starts to get thicker. Scandi has no secondary bevel and is arguably easier to sharpen/touch up.
Many different people prefer many different grinds and geometries. You can argue the pros and cons of each until the cows come home...

If you seal a blade in SS foil do you quench it in the foil or remove the foil, thus cooling the metal inside?
Foil wrap is typically used on "air hardening" blades. Most applications allow you to leave the blade in the foil while you press both the knife and foil between quench plates. Once the knife cools, you can remove it. The foil is merely one way of eliminating oxygen from high temperature heat treatment processes, where the amount of heat would destroy the blade if oxygen were present.

Can you 'stabilize' a piece of leather for a set of scales?
You can, but as Mr. Svinarich already stated, oil is an adequate sealant/protected, and still allows you to maintain the "feel" of leather.

What is a good progression of belts when starting a new blade?
There are probalby as many opinions/techniques on this as there are belts to choose from. I usually start with a 60 to 80 grit for roughing, than take it to 120 to 220 for heat treat. Final finishing might be done anywhere from 220 to 1000 grit.
Just make sure that with every progression of grit, that you are removing all off the scratches from the previous grit, because the closer you get to 1000, the long it will take to remove that last scratch from the 220.
Progression ultimately depends on how quickly would want to remove metal, vs. how shiny you want your final finish to be.
I'd say that for most "users", 400 grit is more than adequate.

Best way to wrap a handle with paracord?
Tighter is usually better. You don't want it to fall off down the road. Sealing the paracord with epoxy or superglue can prevent that. As for whether to do a straight wrap, double wrap, or a decorative wrap, that's all up to you (or the customer).

When a handle is wrapped in paracord do you seal or coat it, and with what?
Epoxy makes a good sealant. Whether you seal it or not is up to you (or the customer).

If steels are stacked and welded to make Damascus how do you get the flux inside?
You add flux WHILE you are welding pieces/surfaces together.

What is the easiest grind for a noob to master?
If you can master any grind, then you are no longer a noob... ;)
A lot of guys start with flat grinds and have trouble with hollows after. I started with hollows and had trouble with flats for a while.
Ultimately, I think it really just depends on which grind to start with, and how much time you dedicate to learning it.
If using jigs, flats are probably easier to facilitate, though I will add that I think everyone should be able to freehand grind.

All that said, how quickly you learn one grind or the other really does vary from person to person. Just pick one you like, and start practicing!
 
I love pictures
4debcbevels-jpg.jpg

blade-bevel-grinds.jpg
 
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I like this http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g436/attila65/kesek 2013/P1070966_zps5f0fa11b.jpg knife very much and need to make a dozen or so for family and some good friends. I guess I'm a big fan of 'Neo' and something that can be used rather than cased and admired. If that picture can be seen it looks to be a flat grind, how close am I? My place has a lot of vine maple and I have handle material hanging next to the forge drying out. I'm also a big fan of using re-cycled material, as in old Ford front coil springs. I've used flat springs for material but they always have cracks, the few blades I've hammered out of old coil's have been pretty good.
As far as equipment I have a propane forge, Grizzly 72" belt sander, bench grinder, 4X36 belt sander and heated canola quench tank. I had built a 120V PID controlled oven but it took to long to heat. I'm almost finished with a 220V one that should be more efficient. I don't want any customers, I like my hobby and have a job. :1:

Can I get a bit more of an explanation or source of pictures of a 'scandi' grind? That just sounds pretty cooll as long as it's functional. I'd also like to be able to forge a piece of chain saw chain or bike chain in the spine of a knife more for aesthetics than anything else as long as the knife is still usable for things like carving a marshmallow stick, piece of cheese, skinning a snake or gutting an elk. So, any ideas on what the heck I should do?
 
I love pictures too. Thank you Mark, I think a scandi will do what I want....at least until my AADD sets in again. :3:
 
Look at Bush Monkey Knives in the Forums.
Jeff makes excellent Scandi grind knives out of bar stock. That's the only grind he makes.
 
Just think of a scandi (or scandinavian) grind as a knife with only a primary (single) bevel.

In other words, instend of griding a primary bevel and then a secondary edge, you take the primary all the way to zero (or all the way to a cutting edge). Scandinavian grinds are usually about 10 to 12 degrees per side, or 20 to 24 degrees inclusive, though they can be a little more or a little less.

They do make for a very sharp blade, and because you have no secondary bevel, they are pretty easy to sharpen and touch up as needed. Just lay the primary bevel against your stone or strop, and sharpen away.

The biggest drawback, IMO, is that the edge is a bit more delicate due to how thin it is, and will chip/roll a little more readily when coming in contact with bone, rocks, or other hard material.

Personally, I typically take the edge all the way to zero (about 20 degrees inclusive) and then put a small micro bevel of about 30 inclusive or so, to give it just a little more strength.
 
Look at Bush Monkey Knives in the Forums.
Jeff makes excellent Scandi grind knives out of bar stock. That's the only grind he makes.

I've seen a few convex grinds before, and MAYBE one or two 3/4 flat grinds, IIRC. Convex for sure though, although, I'd say that 90% of his knives are scandi (or saber, as he terms it) ground.
 
Pretty much everything has been answered, except...

Making damascus: heat the billet up to a dull red, add flux, then bring it up to welding heat.... flux keeps scale from forming so you put it on before it is hot enough for scale to form, but if you put it on cold steel it doesn't stick and just falls off. If you put it on dull red steel, it melts on contact and forms a protective layer.

With a non-stainless knife, it is advisable to seal the tang before wrapping it, if you're doing a wrapped handle.

Not going to get in the grind argument...:)
 
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