Steel question... 1084 or 5160 as my one steel for all knife sizes? 10" plus too

G

Geoffrey

Active Member
So I am finally getting close to actually making knives, I have been gathering and building my NWG over the past 12 months and I have it all built except the wiring of the motor and switch.

I am planning out my next USA Knife Makers Supply order for grinding belts and I am on the fence about which steel to use.

Originally I had planned to use O1 and 154cm and send it out for professional heat treating, that is still an option however cost of HT then becomes an issue and would result in me making less knives due to the extra costs involved.

So I got into research mode and found through this and other forums that maybe I need to use a simple carbon steel and heat treat it myself. That search lead me to two steels. 1084 and 5160.

I read many posts here, especially by well seasoned makers, that it is advisable to pick a steel and work with it and perfect my skills with one steel before moving onto others.

From my research 1084 makes great small to midsize knives, alternatively 5160 makes great large and tough knives.

I plan to make knives from small stock 1" and 1/8" thick; midsize stock 1.5" stock 3/16"; and large stock 2" - 2.5" wide 1/4" stock.

I am confident that 1084 will do the small and midsize knives with ease. My concern is knives on the larger end of the spectrum. I REALLY love larger knives, 7" to 12" blades are the main reason for building my grinder.

5160 will certainly make choppers, that is a given. However I haven't read much about it's use in smaller knives. Also I haven't found anything thinner than 1/4" thick.

Since I can only find 1/4" thick 5160 that has me leaning heavily towards 1084 for my one steel.

So all that said, my main question is 1084 and large blades ( 2" wide blade up to 12"+ long ), will they work well together or am I headed for disaster?

Thanks in advance all!

Geoffrey
 
Yes, they will work together. Remember that there is more than one way to achieve that toughness in the blade, especially the spine. You can edge quench which will create a tough spine. Clay coating the spine will also produce this result. You can full quench and then temper the whole blade and then further draw the temper in the spine with a torch. This will give you a stronger but less tough spine than the first methods. Then you can just simply draw the temper back just a bit more than you would with a smaller blade. The whole blade would be tougher but less hard and would also lose some wear resistance.

If you want a simple hypoeutectic steel to make choppers from you could always try 1075.

Doug
 
Geoffey,
I started with 1095 and 1084 is a bit more forgiving during heat treatment. Also I haven't done it myself but it's my understanding that O1 can be Heat treated at home with a simple one brick forge like the 10XX series steels can be? Also many sword makers use the 10XX series steels so large and small is covered there.

Also if you want to go stainless which is what I did after a few in the 10XX series because I am right next to the ocean and could literally watch the knife rust as I worked on it. Its really not all that much more expensive.
I use CPM-154, CPM-S35VN and the one I suggest and still use to get started is 440C Not very expensive and any that HT stainless steels can do it. Also, Big or small? 440C works!

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
I tried both. A bar of each. Found I could heat treat the 1084 more to my liking in my shop. Bought a bunch of it two years ago and still have a far amount. I make all size knives out of it with no problem. I'm going to make my performance test knife out of it too. Working on the blue backing of the blades now. First batch I did not get the spine soft enough. Mastersmith Rodebaugh gave me a heat treat procedure to try.

I was told by all three Mastersmith I have taken classes with to pick one steel and work with it till you get it to perform for you. Mastersmith Foster forged a knife out of 1084 and showed a group of us in a class it will past the test.

So I would IMHO suggest you start with 1084, it's very forgiving when it come to heat treating.
 
Go with 1084 for several reasons.

1. It won't require or benefit from a soak held at an accurate temperature like 5160 , O1, or any stainless. This is important to achieve consistency right off the bat.

2. It is available in a wide range of thicknesses to suit your needs. I don't believe you'll find 5160 in less than 1/4" thickness.

3. An added benefit is it's cheap too.

4. Like these guys, I wouldn't hesitate at all to make large knives from 1084.

-Josh
 
1084...Easy to HT at home, easy to work with, it's cheap so mistakes won't hurt so bad, a very good steel for both new and seasoned makers, large or small it'll work for them all.
 
Thanks guys.

I thought I might get this positive feedback on 1084, just wanted to ask you folks first.
 
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