PID programming for dummies????

C Craft

C Craft

Well-Known Member
PID programming for dummies. Well that pretty much says it all. I have a PID that I am using to control my toaster oven for HT, and I am just lost with the instructions on setting it up.:les: I have a friend that has been helping me get the toaster wired up and I have already asked him so many questions I hate to ask him anything more, as he has been great help so far sooooooooooo in desperation and trying not to have to ask him for more help!!!!

Can anyone throw me a bone and take me thru setting it up for a scenario of heating at 450* F which by my conversion chart is 232.2*C. I wish this was setup in Fahrenheit but its not so I can convert, I just can't seem to get it programmed and running. When it comes to setting up electronics I feel like a big dummy!

Here is the info on the unit I am trying to program:
Model - C100FKO2-V-EN

RANGE - 0-400*C K

OUTPUT - SSR

No. - 11B051019

SUPPLY - 100 TO 200VAC, 50-60 Hz

AKC INSTRUMENT INC.

Made in Japan

Here is a link to the instructions on programming it but I must be doing something wrong!!!:what!:

https://www.mpja.com/download/rex-c100.pdf

However I must need the dummies version as I not getting this thing programmed where it will work! Can anyone take me thru setting it up for the 450*F scenario,step by step sloooooowly, my blonde is showing thru the gray.

If I can master that maybe then I can figure out how to set it up for any temperature. I feel like I am learning how to use a computer all over again! :sad::30: I had never had any experience at computers, till we bought our first PC for the kids. I crashed Windows 95 so many times, the techs just laughed when I would ask if they could help me.

Please feel free to help the dummy! :s12108:





 
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I would also like any information anyone can share on this subject. Computers speak a whole other language to me, and most of it is cussing.
 
I can do it but would have to be there,I can't tell you how to do it.
KenH is an expert at this,maybe he will chime in and help y'all.
 
Well that's embarrassing :12: as Ken is the one that has been helping with the wiring on this thing! So I guess if I don't hear differently I will have to contact Ken on how to program the PID. I really hate to bother him although he did tell me if I needed anything else to let him know! I got several places to go today, you know those last minute things before Christmas.

Smitty I know exactly what you mean. I didn't know anything about computers when I first started and I asked my wife to help and she got me started and then said, you have to learn it yourself! :what!: Like I said I crashed Windows 95 so many times I nearly wore out the recovery disk!:s12137:
The thing about this PID it has a manual but that also covers many other models and Ken even sent me another PDF file that is for my model only. However when I am trying to program this thing by the time I read the next direction the time allowed to do this has expired. The main problem with stuff like this they forget I have no background in something like this and I really am lost when it comes to what they are saying!

I have a son in law that is a computer whizz. I will call him and ask him how to do something and I can hear the frustration in his voice. I am sure he is thinking, "poor lost soul". Heck I barely passed typing 1 in HS, and my teacher told me not to take Typing 2!:20: I mean when I went to school computers were as big as refrigerators and took up whole rooms, and the only places that had them were NASA and big colleges! I watch my son in law doing something on my PC and he is flying from screen to screen clicking on this and that faster than I can even figure out what the heck it says.

Calvin if I can't figure this out I may have to come see you! I just hate to show up on someones doorstep and the first time I meet someone, "ah, can you help me"??? No sir, I am not going door to door begging, :les: at least not in the sense you are thinking!!! :what!::biggrin:

This is the very reason I don't have a smart phone,............I hate electronics that are smarter than I am!!!!:drool:

You know 90% of it is the way they word things. I am always telling my son in law you can tell the person that wrote that program doesn't think like the average laymen, or they wouldn't make the process so complicated!

Here is a novel idea make your electronic work under the KISS process. Keep it simple stupid!:s11798:
 
I just found this thread - missed most of yesterday. Cliff, I had one of those REXC100 PID controller and it worked pretty good, but I loaned to to a buddy. I'm a lot like Calvin, need it in front of me to do much with it. "IF" I actually measured up to just half of Calvin's nice words, I could just write up simple step by step procedure. Been too long since I had my hands on that PID.

Usually, you can put the PID in "learn" mode and it will take care of doing all the settings for you once you get the basics out of the way, type of input, type of output, etc. From the model number it should be set up for "K" input which is what you want, and the output may well be set also. Have you turned it on to see ambient temperature displayed? Then use the "UP" arrow to increase set point temperature and it might just start controlling.

Calvin is a lot closer than I am, but you are more than welcome to take a trip over and we'll play with your PID stuff and talk knives {g}. You've got my cell number, so feel free.

Ken H>

Ken H>
 
I built a controler 2 years ago and the one Darrin Sanders runs as well. When I first built it I would run programs but since then now I just manually do it and like doing it that way much better. Generally you can write down exactly and for how long you want the program to run then call the help line of the company for the controller you have and they will give you the input codes and cycle codes.
 
Yeah, I am beginning to think this PID has some real problems. There is some scuttlebutt on the net that there is some counterfeit Rex C100's on the market. I am beginning to believe that may be what I have. After I took the whole toaster oven and PID to KenH's here I while back I thought we had it licked. However before I left over there that day it would not let you change the heat setting and I think we took it off of the thinking mode, while trying to get the PID to let us change the SV!
Anyway I get it home and I am going to fire it up to cure some stabilized Elk antler I about to use for a knife and I notice after I turned it on that according to the PID it is not stopping anywhere close to where I had it set and is now ramping up wildly. So I go back to try and program it to have a stopping point and now it is not wanting to except the codes.

So I have been playing with this thing a couple of days now figuring sooner or later I will get it figured out and last night I noticed the setting it was on was 93*C which translates too 199.4*F, or hot enough you don't want to stick your hand in it for long. So I had opened the door to let it cool back down while trying to get the high point set and I look at the PID and the PV or process value has out shot the SV or set value and is now at 173*C or 343.4*F.
That can't be right because the element are just barely warm, (not even glowing) at 343.4*F, the elements ought to be glowing red and I shouldn't be able to stick my hand in the oven and hold it there. So I grab a brand new oven thermometer that I had on hand and hung it in there and shut the door. Even though the PV is still steadily climbing it hasn't registered on the thermometer!

Now this thing has me really baffled so I went back and re-read on the net what I can find about the counterfeit Rex C 100's. The counterfeits even though they say they can power a SSR they do not have enough out put to make the SSR work properly. So now I am thinking even if I get the setting procedure figured out, if I got one of the counterfeits it is never going to work properly!

I am so aggravated with this thing I am ready to pull it out of the controller box and put an Auber in its place! They are supposed to be easier to work with and there is no counterfeit copies running around out there! I guess it all goes back to that old saying, "you get what you pay for"! I already talked with the sales people at Auber and based on what we talked about Sharon in sales recomeneded these three PID's.

1) SYL-2352. It has only one set temperature, no timer. But it is relative simple to set up. Has fuzzy logic.
2) SYL-2352P. This controller has 30 programmable steps, and you can set the timer for every step. Has fuzzy logic.
3) SWA-2451. This controller has timer function. You can turn off the controller output after certain time. The timer can be either dependent or independent of the set temperature.

I don't know maybe I am just a big dummy but it shouldn't be this hard to setup a PID to control your toaster! :mad: I feel like this thing has just got me chasing my tail and I am about to get dizzy and tired of doing it!:s11779:
 
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Well bummer Cliff - I sure thought we had it whupped. It was controlling nicely at 100C, and a couple other setpoints we used. Remember, you should have some over shoot as the oven is stabilizing to temp.

With the displayed temp (PV) on PID not agreeing anywhere close to the thermometer you used inside oven, then something is surely not right. Are the TC wires making good connection? Not loose or anything? "IF" the displayed temp (PV) is not correct, then there is nothing you can do to make it work right.

I don't think for a tempering oven you need all the ramp/soak functions - seems like for tempering all that is needed is to held a setpoint temp, put a timer somewhere if you need it to remind when 2 hrs is past. Somebody else can chime in if they think ramp/soak settings are needed on a tempering oven. On the Quench oven/kiln - there it can be used for sure.

The Auber SYL-2352 is certianly a good choice.

Ken H>
 
Yeah me too Ken! When I first plugged it up in my shop I turned it on and the thing was set for 93*C which is almost 200*F. So I get busy getting ready to pull this piece of Elk of the stabilization juice it has been soaking in and I look over at the PID and it is showing about 173*. I thought well it just over shot it, (by quite a bit) but I opened and cooled it down. Let it start up again and this time went up to 193*C. so this time I shut it down and after several attempts it is not stopping it just keeps climbing! I will check the leads of the TC but the thing that is concerning me the most is the temp is way off. At 193* C that should be about 379.4*F. The elements should be cooking, glowing red and they are not even showing any red and the separate temp gauge I have for an oven begins at 120*F and it hasn't even moved. I can hold my hand in the oven and feel warmth but there is no way it is at the temp it is showing.
Once again I will check the TC wires and make sure they are tight but there is something definitely something wrong with the temp reading like it is. It could be the actual TC, it is new but has been laying around the shop for a while in a bubble wrapped box, so I think it is OK. I agree for this application the Auber SYL-2352 is probably where I will go. It is suppose to be easy to program and it has fuzzy logic. That ought to work well with my fuzzy mind!!
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Just a quick note I opened up the box the PID is mounted in and the TC wires are tight, so went all the way back to where the wires come out of the TC and that is tight as well. I ran my hand up and down the wires while hooked up and got no change in the reading. I am about to pull the trigger on a new Auber SYL-2352 PID and me and this one (Rex C100 PID) are going to part company! Hopefully that will cure all problems!:sad:
 
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Update to the PID situation. I managed to get the PID to heat up the oven. However the number on the PID and actual temp showing on the screen are not matching up, and it is still doing a runaway on the temp! According to my thermoeter I had inside the oven it went to 450*F and I manually shut the power down to keep it from frying something. The temp continue to climb to 475* F, even after the power was shut off, before it began to cool after the shut down. The PV showed it was many degrees below that temp. The SV was way below that point. Frustrated I decided to try one more thing! Since there is no link to product support from the Chinese that market this PID I did the next best thing!!!!

I took a shot and emailed the company in the US that handled the Rex C100 as a distributor. I got a reply late today and they no longer handle that PID, in fact he called it obsolete. However he did agree to give me help to set it up. I also found out this PID will read in *F or in *C. (very interesting)!!:les:
The tech asked for some additional info which I sent to him. So maybe with any luck I may be able to get this PID up and running yet! That would make me a very happy camper! :35:
 
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OK my tech fell of the face of the earth today. :what!: He had sent me an email either early his time or last night. I answered some more questions and then, I sent an email back to him and ..................................... nothing:les:

Hopefully he just got busy today and someone from the company hasn't warned him off of helping me since they don't carry the model anymore!:taz: That would be just about my luck! Somedays I feel like the ole boy from Hee Haw, "if it weren't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all"!
 
Bummer on the hassle you're having Cliff - do keep us undated to your progress. I've got one of those REX-C100 PID that "used" to work just fine, but over the last few weeks a buddy who borrowed it has been having the same problems you're having. He's working on us a 3D printer conversion for our CNC mills. Temperature just keeps climbing and melted a feeder tube.

Ken H>
 
Ken, I fully believe it is something in the programming that is the culpert. One of the questions that the tech asked me has me thinking the reason they were pulled is the way it has to be programmed and I could be making a big assumption based on one thing he told me. I am hoping that he was off yesterday or maybe he had a busy Friday, etc. etc.. My biggest fear is someone in the company pulled him aside and said, "Dude you know we don't handle those anymore and you know in today's world you are opening yourself up for a lawsuit"! If that is what has happened it is all over for tech support. That would be a real shame as this guy seemed to have a good handle on the PID and he asked if I had a set of instructions to refer. When I replied I did he said, "good then I can talk even a novice thru this"!

It is really strange this PID is all over the net, one because its cheap but it is being used widely in different aspects home beer brewing, cooking, and other things. However I have blisters on my fingers from doing searches for programming of this PID. I have yet to find anyplace that has a video or text on how to walk you thru the programming. I am going to give it a little more time and if I still can't get this thing functioning correctly I am going to pull the plug, bite the bullet and buy and Auber. They are supposed to be easier and they actually do have tech support for their products.

I guess it should say something when you trace the history of the Rex C100. It is manufactured in Japan but only marketed thru the Chinese and you may or may not be able to get a set of English instructions. As Ken pointed out to me there are some English instructions on the web but different searches have shown me that they are not all the same and some are incomplete sets of instructions. Here is something I discovered, just for laughs I found a set of Chinese instructions and even though I can't read a word of Chinese, when I put the Chinese instructions on one screen and the English version on the other, the Chinese version seems to have more detail.........or at least it looks like they do! :biggrin:
 
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